OFFICIAL: RSD #1 - Does Botting Defeat the Purpose of the Game of the Game

This is the first official RSD (RuneScape Debate) held by Rune Gear. Members will participate in the debate if they state the position they're taking (Affirmative - For / Negative - Against) in this debate within their first post on the thread. The debate then ends in 7 days time, and the winners are chosen by the Events Team Leader(s) (currently Pink Floyd). Winners are chosen based on the following:

• Grammar and punctuation
• Vocabulary
• Use of external sources for backup (or evidence)
• Maintaining a constructive argument
• Answering the question (with their opinion)

By insulting someone elses opinion, you are automatically disqualified.
These will be done on a weekly basis, with the winners receiving:

• RS Debator Award -
• 5M RSGP

The award is only given once if a person wins multiple times.


Let the debate begin!

Shockwave said:

Yes, Someone come at me.

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If you say so.


Negative - Against

I would like to start off by saying no it does not. Their are many different ways that this can be viewed, but my take on it is rather simple and realistic. In my opinion their are two perspectives on it, combat & monetary. The ultimate goal of a game, is to reach the end. In Runescape we all know that technically speaking their is no end, however the closest thing to it is referred to as maxed, or having maxed cash.

Combat:



The goal of achieving a maxed out account is the end goal of most Runescape players. To properly achieve a maxed out account you must spend over approximately four to six years playing a game. The purpose of bots is to allow players that do not have the time to spend maxing out their accounts, help achieve their ultimate goal. Combat bots can in essence be compared to Viagra, in the sense that they both help you reach the end result without ruining all the fun.

Monetary

The second perspective of this is that many players ultimately wish to achieve max cash. With the g.e now in place, it is possible to have seven max cash piles, along with tradable items of in game value. Depending upon the stamina of a player, the amount of time to obtain max cash can range from 5-10 years (playing legitimately). Now plain in simple, who has this kind of time to spend achieved digital currency? The money making bots on Runescape simply allow players to manage their real lives more manageable as well as their in game characters; as concerned to total wealth that is.

More to come.

I am now monitoring this thread. :sneaky:

No, botting does not defeat the purpose of the game. If there were no bots, the economy of Runescape would be awful. Prices would drastically change. Take chinchompas for example: if there were no bots hunting the prices for red chinchompas would be outrageous. They are currently 517gp per chinchompa. On the 22nd of October, they were 475gp each.

Just because Jagex released a statement saying bots would be broken, everyone is now buying out highly botted supplies in Runescape. From the 22nd of October until the 25th of October, all of these supplies prices are going to sky rocket. Just image if these skyrocketed prices stayed at that price forever. People couldn't train range at a fast pace without being rich, people couldn't use high alchemy without having a decent amount of money to spend; I could go on with these examples forever.

My final conclusion again is is no, bots do not defeat the purpose of the game.

Sources:
Red Chinchompa price: http://services.runescape.com/m=itemdb_rs/Red_chinchompa/viewitem.ws?obj=10034

gavin101 said:

No, botting does not defeat the purpose of the game. If there were no bots, the economy of Runescape would be awful. Prices would drastically change. Take chinchompas for example: if there were no bots hunting the prices for red chinchompas would be outrageous. They are currently 517gp per chinchompa. On the 22nd of October, they were 475gp each.

Just because Jagex released a statement saying bots would be broken, everyone is now buying out highly botted supplies in Runescape. From the 22nd of October until the 25th of October, all of these supplies prices are going to sky rocket. Just image if these skyrocketed prices stayed at that price forever. People couldn't train range at a fast pace without being rich, people couldn't use high alchemy without having a decent amount of money to spend; I could go on with these examples forever.

My final conclusion again is is no, bots do not defeat the purpose of the game.

Sources:
Red Chinchompa price: http://services.runescape.com/m=itemdb_rs/Red_chinchompa/viewitem.ws?obj=10034

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Would the economy be awful? because some items would be priced a little bit higher? this means more opportunity to make money yourself. If vial of water is suddenly 5k, more people would start making them themselves or selling them, which takes time away from their skilling and adds to their play time so it would increase the amount of hours played by runescapers which is exactly what jagex would like.

While most of the people who dont know what bots are, are enjoying what they are doing in the game and they think certain ways are the fastest ways to make money, were are to the ones who know how bot efficantly never want to play the game anymore beacuse of the amount of effort it would take to play legitly. I think botting does take out the fun, this game is made to be played, most people on these forums sell their gold anyway so they are making a business not a game. The people who are playing this game legitly are happy about the suplys being cheap, yet i see them complaining about not being able to cut a tree down because there are 50 other bots trying to get it.

The purpose of the game is to enjoy it, are you enjoying it because you are making a profit? or are you enjoying it because you are hanging out with you friends in an online world, fighting bosses and things of that sort.

I certainly belive that botting takes the fun out of the game for the botter, and quite a large community of non botters

Yes I strongly believe that botting does defeat the purpose of the game. A game should only be played if it is enjoyable, correct? If you ware not playing the game & enjoying it then what is the point in "playing" it. As backed up by http://videogames.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Why_Do_People_Play_Video_Games games are commonly played for an escapism aspect or to release stress.

I strongly put forward that botting is infact not playing the gam, It defeats the purpose of "playing" the game of RuneScape, however the reason people do bot on runescape is to either gain in a real life monetary position or to level their skills. However in rebutle to this argument you could argue that if you are not going to be playing the game then why even bother "training" your skills if you didn't do them so therefore the value and sense of achievment you have from doing it is now nill.

Thanks.

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gavin101 said:

No, botting does not defeat the purpose of the game. If there were no bots, the economy of Runescape would be awful. Prices would drastically change. Take chinchompas for example: if there were no bots hunting the prices for red chinchompas would be outrageous. They are currently 517gp per chinchompa. On the 22nd of October, they were 475gp each.

Just because Jagex released a statement saying bots would be broken, everyone is now buying out highly botted supplies in Runescape. From the 22nd of October until the 25th of October, all of these supplies prices are going to sky rocket. Just image if these skyrocketed prices stayed at that price forever. People couldn't train range at a fast pace without being rich, people couldn't use high alchemy without having a decent amount of money to spend; I could go on with these examples forever.

My final conclusion again is is no, bots do not defeat the purpose of the game.

Sources:
Red Chinchompa price: http://services.runescape.com/m=itemdb_rs/Red_chinchompa/viewitem.ws?obj=10034

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In rebuttle to this, without bot's though the economy would be less inflated and people would have to strive to achieve their goals. Rather then them being more easily obtained which you can argue is a bad thing. It would also in turn increase the gp/hour obtained by camping at frost dragons for example or green dragons instead of the measly gp/hour which is obtainable now, due to bot's ruining the game for both the botter and genuinely legitimate people.

Affirmative.

Back in about 2006-2007 I started playing Runescape, it was one of the best experiences of my life. It was a new game, many things to do. I played every day, but not hardcore or anything. Slowly but surely I made my way up, as did my family and friends. This went great for years, until about 2010 or so. That's when I discovered botting. Botting has caused me to become addicted, I strive for perfection and spend many hours researching what I need for botting, safest way to bot, etc. But that's just me, botting also ruins the community. When I first started I was greeted by a random stranger. He "brought me in" and taught me about the game. I would chat with him constantly and actually became friends with him in game. If I was to make an account now, instead of being greeted by a random stranger who actually wants to help, I would be greeted with something along the lines of "BUY OUR GOLD, WWW.IRUINRS.COM".
People argue "Without bots the economy would fall". This means in-game and for Jagex. I find this a weak argument. First off:
Jagex. While it is true that botters are Jagex's main economy, that is only because the legit people have left. I may have been ignorant of bots when I first started, but it is very obvious to me that that majority of players were legit. What happened? Simple, with the rise of botters many legit people left or joined in. If bots were to leave, I personally believe that more people would play and therefore the income would not be affected.
Now: In-game. Many say that without bots, there simply would not be enough resources to keep the game running, or they would be to expensive. But if prices were higher for raw materials, then more money could be made and each player would have more to spend. In my mind this negates the price rise, as everyone is richer. And for the raw materials, it's solved by my point above. Without bots more legit people would play thus more resources would be attained and the economy would be maintained.
From my personal experiences I have gleaned this information and have written it all here for you, I truly believe what I have said above and I truly believe that without botters, the game of Runescape would be a better experience for me and for everyone else.

I honestly and personally believe that botting DOES defeat the purpose of the game, and it is ruining the game, day by day.

You see, because of the botters, JaGeX ruined the game by taking away free trade and wilderness, and that was the botters' fault. Right? They brought it back for one, to increase the number of members, and two, make botters realize that JaGeX are ruining the game, and if they keep going they'll end up getting permanently banned, etc.

JaGeX want to get rid of botters, of course & improve the game. They will patch things, take things out all because of the botters of RuneScape. It makes the game no fun, you bot 1bil, and sell it for $1k IRL, in my opinion: get a job. Don't waste your life just sitting their watching a game that's supposed to be played LEGITLY instead of botting.

If you play the game legitly, it will be way more fun, right? Stop botting, and keep playing legitly, you will somehow be rewarded. Don't risk getting banned, rolledback, etc. It is NOT worth it.

Negative
No botting does not defeat the purpose of the game because;

1.) Gold farmers gather resources in mass amounts. Amounts that normal players would not have the time nor the patience to gather. With the sheer volume of resources flooding the market, this keeps the prices on them to a minimum. Have raw materials at a low price keeps the price of training secondary skills (fletching, smithing, etc) to a minimum and even lets you profit off of training them.

2.) Bots can be used to speed up training or getting certain tasks done, such as getting void. I know for a fact that I would much rather be posting on here then suiciding for a set of void. Also, bots click a shit load faster and more precisely, this can speed up mundane tasks such as cleaning herbs.

3.) Botting lets you skip the parts of the game that suck, allowing you to enjoy the best parts of it such as PKing, Bossing, and Questing.

Kevin said:

No botting does not defeat the purpose of the game because;

1.) Gold farmers gather resources in mass amounts. Amounts that normal players would not have the time nor the patience to gather. With the sheer volume of resources flooding the market, this keeps the prices on them to a minimum. Have raw materials at a low price keeps the price of training secondary skills (fletching, smithing, etc) to a minimum and even lets you profit off of training them.

2.) Bots can be used to speed up training or getting certain tasks done, such as getting void. I know for a fact that I would much rather be posting on here then suiciding for a set of void. Also, bots click a shit load faster and more precisely, this can speed up mundane tasks such as cleaning herbs.

3.) Botting lets you skip the parts of the game that suck, allowing you to enjoy the best parts of it such as PKing, Bossing, and Questing.

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Would you not like to see legit players having fun, instead of reporting bots? People do that daily, for 12+ hours waiting for them to get banned so the game can be more fun. To me, your statements are wrong. It is not fair, and it should have never happened. Earn the money yourself, you'd be more proud. Don't bot your way to the top, it is not fair.

RuneScape said:

Would you not like to see legit players having fun, instead of reporting bots? People do that daily, for 12+ hours waiting for them to get banned so the game can be more fun. To me, your statements are wrong. It is not fair, and it should have never happened. Earn the money yourself, you'd be more proud. Don't bot your way to the top, it is not fair.

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Instead of just telling me that I'm wrong, take away the credibility of what I gave as support for my argument. I thought this was supposed to be a debate, not a bunch of idiots shouting over botting, saying that they're debating.

Botting in RuneScape is like Rank Hacking in Modern Warfare 2. Sure, it's great to have every weapon unlocked and not have to wait around. But at what cost? Who else is being affected? Quite a large proportion of RuneScape players have at least tried botting. Whether it was the good old AutoClicker that would click the same Willow tree, or the same Iron filled rock. Or more advanced NeXuS bots which change its instruction set based on the data input.

The purpose of botting is to gain levels or money that you don't think you could do without help. I bot because I enjoy the feel of RuneScape, but don't want to have to sit next to a bank for hours whilst I make 350,000 Yew Longbow's for 99 Fletching. I want to be able to walk around and flaunt what I have and be able to fight stronger NPC's.

In my opinion, there are two types of botters. Those who bot to sell the account or gold they make from it. And there are the ones who cannot be bothered to constantly go back and forth making Nature Runes from the Abbys and only make 9XP Per Rune crafted. The botting itself doesn't destroy the game. It is the Real World Trading that goes along with it that does. Botting has increased the amount of resources in rotation. This allows even legitimate players to profit off getting their levels up easier without having to scavenge for items such as Bow String for Fletching, Coal for Smithing, Nature Runes for Magic, or even Gold Bars for Crafting.

Botting has an equivalent effect as Machines Taking over human jobs in real life. They get the job done faster and more efficient. Without bots, would you be willing to pay 300GP/ea for Pure Essence? I know I wouldn't.

With the most recent bots buster that is currently being implemented into RuneScape. This will not stop them from making them more advanced and sophisticated. Currenly, bots can do quests, respond to users in chat, and even make human-like decisions like those seen in iDungeon Pro. From here they will only get more human-like. Every bot will have completely ranzomized mouse paths. They will be able to walk from one side of runescape to the other and even say hello to people along the way. They will soon be able to train one skill for a couple of hours, then run to another location to train another. It's only a matter of time until you won't even know if a player is a bot or human.

If bots were freely allowed, this would be an issue. But the thrill of being sneaky enough to not get caught while being online for 24hrs+ is great for some users. RG user Nick even attempted to bot Dungeoneering from one Tuesday update to the next.

The current price of RuneScape Membership is about AU$10. The multitude of botters all purchasing Membership credit for all their bot accounts, would certainly be a large profitable turnover for Jagex. The subscription cost for the 2010 financial year was above 90% of the total annual turnover! How much of this do you think is coming from botters or someone who has used a bot in the last 12 Months? This is shown in the graph below:

(Image thread source: http://www.stellardawncentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16966)

In closing, I disagree that the use of bots within runescape affect the gameplay of other users.

No it doesn't. The end

Does botting defeat the purpose of playing this game???

I am FOR with this topic

COMBAT
Combat is one of the longest skills in runescape and i acutally enjoy training it. Using bots is practially like getting someone else to do your dirty work for it while u go on and do all the fun stuff as pk/dice/merch/gwds and more but to really achive the full compention in this game you have to do the dirty work and then you can be proud of your self then enjoy the rewards that it brings in store

SKILLS

I have recently got 99 fishing and 99 woodcutting and i was actually pretty proud and happy with myself. Imo (in my opinion) bots are just a cheat. It's the same in cheating in gambling/sport/board games it doesn't matter what it is its cheating even if its only a game called "Runescape" it's still cheating. This my opinion and mine only i do not disagree with others options and would actually like to hear there reasons

QUESTS

Now i have seen a few quests bots out there. I hate quests personally but i still do it legit because its part of the game, not all games are just meant to be fun. There is a certain amount of concentration and patience to complete many tasks in Runescape like quests. Like i said under the topic COMBAT if you do the dirty work you will be pleased with the rewards such as able to access gwds or tds. But if you don't do the dirty work you have cheated your understanding and imo no one likes cheaters.

ECONOMY

Now remember back in 2007-2009 When you finally got that 100k u were wishing for? and I remembered looting a whip which back then was classified as a lot of money but now days there 300k! That price defeats the purpose of the feelings you get when getting a whip drop from a slayer task. I mean 300k i still alot for me but it's the feeling of satisfaction that i like and getting a bot to do it for you doesn't give you any of this?
Thanks for reading my Reason's that i believe bots affect this game and i would be curious with the reasons that people would AGREE/DISAGREE with me so thanks and enjoy!

Kevin said:

Affirmative
No botting does not defeat the purpose of the game because;

1.) Gold farmers gather resources in mass amounts. Amounts that normal players would not have the time nor the patience to gather. With the sheer volume of resources flooding the market, this keeps the prices on them to a minimum. Have raw materials at a low price keeps the price of training secondary skills (fletching, smithing, etc) to a minimum and even lets you profit off of training them.

2.) Bots can be used to speed up training or getting certain tasks done, such as getting void. I know for a fact that I would much rather be posting on here then suiciding for a set of void. Also, bots click a shit load faster and more precisely, this can speed up mundane tasks such as cleaning herbs.

3.) Botting lets you skip the parts of the game that suck, allowing you to enjoy the best parts of it such as PKing, Bossing, and Questing.

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You're not affirmative then.

You messaged me, So I have been summoned.

My position in this Debate: Negative - Against

My opening Opinion: Botting does not defeat the purpose of the game as the purpose of a game of any sorts is always entertainment. RuneScape from the years it was born and ratified to the present has always provided entertainment. In 2001 when RuneScape was first born it was a brand new source of entertainment for people(not around the world yet) of a large croud! Through the years many things have been added and taken away from the game but no matter what date, or what update, you can not say that RuneScape has provided no entertainment to anyone whatsoever. (given that RuneScape was online this day.)

Proof Supporting my Opinion 1: Mini-games:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CsLeDx4MU RuneScape has multiple minigames that provide a large amount of sub-entertainment to the players. Such as Castle Wars. Castle Wars is one of the oldest mini-games in RuneScape, though it is old it is still one of the most popular mini-games in RuneScape because it provides entertainment!

Proof Supporting my Opinion 2: Quests: RuneScape has over three hundred quests!(http://prntscr.com/3nepp) these quests have had blood, sweat, and, tears put into them each and they have been well spent! The Quests in RuneScape are very thrilling,heart touching,sometimes funny and all over entertaining! All the Quests in RuneScape have an appropriate level of difficulty to complete but that is just another entertainment filler as it gives them something to work for and people like that!(Hence high scores on Arcade games and such)

Now sure, the mass amount of Gold Farmers in RuneScape say, cutting yews or fishing at the fishing guild do in ways make people mad but, JaGex would not be as funded as they are today without these bots, many updates we have such as clan citadels, Stealing Creation, Overloads. These may not be here due to unmotivated workers. No doubt bots have helped fund nearly 53% or more of RuneScape's funding. Without bots the game would be alot different, maybe it wouldnt even be here today but, All in All you can not tell me that botting in runescape defeats the purpose of the game(Entertainment) Botting supports the pursuit of entertainment in the game for people who bot and for people who do not bot as well by providing materials and providing the botters with levels, tokens for chaotic weapons, bones for prayer, prayer levels for PKing. So, I Dare anyone to tell me a good reason of how Botting Defeats the purpose of the game of RuneScape.
~Blaze
EDIT: Please someone get some good competition in here.

In all honesty, botting does defeat the purpose of the game.
I don't have a clue why someone would cheat, you're not accomplishing anything out of cheating.
A majority of you are claiming that it's okay, that the aim of the game is to "Max out" your account, in which case if you max out your account... Who really did it? Not you, you won't get that feeling of accomplishment.

Another reason why botting is harmful to Runescape is because, when real "Human" players go to skilling spots, a lot of bots have mouse speed set up so high that by the time you get to the tree or rock or whatever. It has been chopped down or the ore has been taken, this in my opinion is extremely annoying and caused me to quit.
I'm extremely happy that Runescape has really started cracking down on bots, now I can play the game with real people and get that conversation aspect that I loved so much.

Monstar said:

In all honesty, botting does defeat the purpose of the game.
I don't have a clue why someone would cheat, you're not accomplishing anything out of cheating.
A majority of you are claiming that it's okay, that the aim of the game is to "Max out" your account, in which case if you max out your account... Who really did it? Not you, you won't get that feeling of accomplishment.

Another reason why botting is harmful to Runescape is because, when real "Human" players go to skilling spots, a lot of bots have mouse speed set up so high that by the time you get to the tree or rock or whatever. It has been chopped down or the ore has been taken, this in my opinion is extremely annoying and caused me to quit.
I'm extremely happy that Runescape has really started cracking down on bots, now I can play the game with real people and get that conversation aspect that I loved so much.

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The aim of the game isn't to max out. It is to Role Play, hence RPG. If it was to max out then many user who have already maxed would have left the game and sold their account. Some people just like to be the highest possible level then play the game the way they would like to enjoy it. To be able to solo General Graador or something along those lines.

If you chose another world, you may have a better chance. Choose a world such as a 1000+ level. Or a high risk wilderness world. Not many bots go on that world.

You never know. Those people you think you're having a conversation with might be a bot smart enough to respond to your sentences. Or maybe someone babysitting their bot.

I think a tournament sort of debate would be a lot better this is just going to be completely unorganized

Relapse said:

I think a tournament sort of debate would be a lot better this is just going to be completely unorganized

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Agreed 2 teams, would be better.