[WD #1] Legalization of Drugs

[-paradox-]

First of all I would like to say I got this idea from "The Wraith" on Hack Forums. I'm taking this and I would like to keep these weekly debates going. The more debates I can participate in the better so why not start this here? Until the Wraith are official I will keep this going.
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Market Forums Weekly Debate #1
Legalization of Drugs​

Rules

• 
  -There will be no flaming of any kind aloud. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and although you are aloud to disagree and argue ones points do not directly insult a member deliberately.
  -Post as high quality as you're able to. Please use proper grammar and spelling to insure that you are getting your point across correctly.
  -Do not steal arguments or posts from anywhere else. This is a debate. You are aloud to use outside sources but be sure to credit them properly.
  -Do not vote for someone as best debater just because you agree with them.

I will be including my final thoughts at the end of the week and will be including who I believe was the best debater. I may set up a poll as well and let the members choose who did the best. Once I have enough points I will be donating them to the best debater. I also hope to become an investor and/or use points to get this stickied for a week every week.

Best Debater - ๖ۣۜPђreคK

So here are a few questions to get us started.

Do you think your government should legalize drugs and why?
Do you think your government should legalize marijuana but keep other narcotics illegal and why?
Do you think all drugs should be illegal? Why? (Alcohol is a drug)

Remember, this is drugs in general. We are allowed to agree with each other so if everyone agrees that cocaine and other "hard" drugs should be illegal we will focus on the legalization of marijuana instead. We will go where the thread takes us. These questions are only to get you started.

Good luck to all!

 

[Phreak]

Warning, long post:

I am in favor of the legalization of Marijuana and will cover multiple things in this debate, such as; legalization of marijuana, the background of marijuana, legalization of narcotics / psychedelics and a history behind these.
While the debate on the legalization of Marijuana is relatively popular and more widely accepted, the legalization of narcotics, in general, is heavily disapproved of.
Why is this, you might ask? Our government has successfully corrupted the way we all think. They have put us into a general mind set, that all narcotics and illicit substances are "horrible for you", or "very dangerous". This is all a complete scam.
This is simply in order for the government to maintain drug traffic control. A lot of you out there are simply either A. Blinded to the fact that our government is horribly corrupt, or B. Refuse to believe that our government would do such things to our society.


Well, your wrong.

Our government maintains our drug traffic control and you can bet that they profit off of it. If our government really wanted to, they could DEFINITELY stop the drug cartels and other drug carriers from entering the country.
Now, why would they allow these people in?
Think of how much money is made off of these people. How much do we generally pay in tax dollars to keep our prisons maintained? How much do we spend to keep these "criminals" behind bars? A TON! Our general tax dollars are being wasted on things that the overall government could control. Corrupt politicians are some of the richest men in the world.

A man once said, "It takes 30 years to brainwash a nation, 15 years to convince the first generation and then another 15 years for them to pass it on to their kids."

Well, congratulations America, you have succeeded. No one can go against our corrupt government, because if they do, they are "un-american", or a "conspiracy theorist". It's bullshit.


Now, on to the legalization of Marijuana:

The legalization of Marijuana is stopped by two major things.
A. The Hemp industry, would run our paper mills and paper industry into the ground. All of the families that survive on these jobs, would simply lose their jobs. Economically, it would do more harm than good to switch over to hemp. Now, you might say, "Well, we don't have to switch over to hemp." That is False. If Marijuana is legalized, hemp will take over. It's simply more economically efficient to produce and it doesn't cut down trees!!!! Look at that, no more rain forest destruction!
B. Another reason why Marijuana legalization is being halted, is because of the "taboo" that surrounds the drug. The government, obviously doesn't want us having it. Why, you might ask? How many "conspiracy theorists", or "anti-government" people do you know? If you know a good amount, you will see that they ALL smoke marijuana. The government is simply afraid of overall rebellion.

Now, don't think I'm making up bullshit when it comes to any of the facts I present. I have FULLY researched all of this for the past 3 years and know my facts.

The main reason marijuana was made illegal:

During the Vietnam war, President Nixon and his administration had a lot of protests against the war in Vietnam. This was during the "hippie era" and many were protesting against War. Now, how could Nixon get rid of these protesters?
He couldn't simply lock them up for protesting, as this would violate the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment. So what did he do? He saw that most of the protesters were smoking the plant, Cannabis. He quickly made it illegal, started spreading horrible rumors about how it caused impaired judgement and sociological disorders and then threw all of the protesters who were smoking, in jail. What does this do? This eliminates the two threats to the Vietnam War. It takes the protesters off the streets and prevents future hippie protesters by making Cannabis illegal.

With all that being said:

I am a personal fan of the legalization of Marijuana.
There are way too many positive notes that have happened because of it.
The Medicinal Marijuana industry in California is grossing over 5 billion dollars. It is obviously a popular success. I believe Marijuana can "enlighten" you and allow you to see everyone and the world in a new light or aspect. I believe it helps people. It has caused so many people that suffer from illness. Whether it be for nausea relief, pain relief, or stimulating appetite, it helps many ill patients.
Now, why should this be denied to patients all over the country? Doesn't that go against our main freedom? I just think it is ridiculous. I will, no matter what, stay a cannabis smoker.
There are ABSOLUTELY zero negative medical effects from cannabis.
Doctors have proven that Alcohol and Tobacco are 100% worse for your body than Cannabis. You can't overdose from too much marijuana, as you can with Alcohol and it's overall safer to use.
I'm going to go ahead and switch over to Narcotics.

Legalization of Narcotics (Specifically dealing with Psychedlics. LSD, DMT, Mushrooms, MDMA):

Psychedelics have been around for a while now, and obviously the government wants us to NOT take them..
I personally believe that the usage of Psychedelics such as: LSD, and DMT can lead to a multitude of great things..
Granted, NO ONE should take Psychedelics for the heck of it.. They are extremely fun and mind opening, however, if not treated with the proper respect, they will Destroy Your Life.

I believe, that the usage of these types of drugs can lead to a higher level of thinking, being more self-aware and more aware of your surroundings and others and give you an overall better perspective on life.

I have personally never had a bad trip on LSD. It seems that if you go into with the idea that "Yes, this is a drug.. I do not need to try and control the drug, however, I need to allow it to take me on a journey" then you will not have a bad trip. You need to treat Psychedelics with their proper respects. If you are respectful to it, then it will be respectful of you.

I find that while on LSD, you go through multiple stages.. You will trip for a while, having pretty colors everywhere and having visuals, then you will go into a higher level of thinking state.. like a meditated state.. where you think.. gain more aspect and information about yourself and the world.. then the drug seems to reward you with more colors and visuals after you do a bit of thinking and exploring..

Warning:

People with a history of social disorders, depression, or have an unstable home life should NOT try these. These tend to bring out your sub-conscious fears and doubts. If you have a lot of doubts, or problems already, then it will just put you into a further down fall. I believe, however, if treated with proper respect and prepared for, these could help people deal with their inner fears and problems.

I just wanted to cover LSD, as it was the most common form of narcotic psychedelic. Now, why is it illegal?
Obviously it is harmful for you. There is too much risk of social disorders developing and people just being stupid with the drug. I think that it would be really awesome, if we could have something like, "Medicinal Psychedelics". I think that some people will greatly reconsider and turn their lives around if they only knew the perspective and outlook on life that Psychedelics could give them.
Another main reason, is that yet again, the government has created this "taboo" image of the drug. This goes back to the hippie era again. They started created false tabloids of how this drug was driving people insane or creating mass hysteria. It's all a bunch of nonsense.

Now that there is this "horrible taboo" surrounding the drug, there would be absolutely no way for it to be legalized. The people are so brainwashed into thinking is completely terrible for you, that they would never allow it to come back.

On to other narcotics / drugs:

Simply, no. These should stay illegal for a reason. There are way too many health risks surrounding these drugs and addiction. With psychedelics, there is NO way to get addicted, however, with others such as Crack, Cocaine, Speed, Meth, and Heroin, they are all highly addictive and can wreck your life.
I've seen it happen on a close up level and it is NOT worth it. I believe there is no reason at all for these to be legalized.

At least Psychedelics and Marijuana give you an overall better outlook on life. All of these others, are just plain stupid and harmful.


Ending Notes:

Well, if you successfully read this all, then pat yourself on the back! You are very dedicated. This post took be a good 45 minutes to write, so show me some love!
All of this is hand written by me and none of it was copy and pasted. This is all strictly from my general knowledge, through college research and personal research that I have done in the past.

This has been a Phreak Production.​

 

[Anxiety]

Do you think your government should legalize drugs and why?
Not at all. The legalization of drugs (I assume you mean all) would simply encourage people, especially young people, to try them risk free. Whether you believe it or not, the law does scare people away from trying the more serious drugs, and fear of the drug itself. If the drug becomes legal, then there will be lots more of it. Lots of people die in result of taking drugs above class B, and they're illegal for a reason. Not much else to say, as it's obvious they shouldn't be legalized.

Do you think your government should legalize marijuana but keep other narcotics illegal and why?
Nope. Marijuana believe it or not is illegal for a reason. No, it's not directly resulted in someone's death but it has been proven to cause (or help contribute to) mental illnesses such as Schizophrenia. Also, if it was legal it would double, maybe triple in popularity meaning even the people who didn't want to go near it will be walking in its fumes. Now, if it was legal but housebound, it's something I wouldn't be strongly against. If the punishment for public marijuana smoking got harsher but it was legal within households then I wouldn't be against it as much. Though, I'd still be against it because children would be forced to inhale the fumes in the household, and would probably start smoking it at a young age, and there's not been much testing to how much damage it can do if you start it really young.

However, there's another side of this argument. If it's legalized, there wouldn't be as much drug crime, and it would probably reduce deaths (lots of people stabbed for not paying/stealing weed etc). If it would reduce street crime, then it tilts the first argument upside down as it would make the world a safer place. It would also create business opportunities where people could open shops for the sales of marijuana, or accessories to make it more fun.

There's one more argument though. Marijuana if legal would cause some issues. For example, would you be allowed to smoke it whilst working? If so; it will inevitably affect your work, especially if it's something physical (like policemen). Furthermore, if it's not allowed at the work place, you'll be adding some very very very fine lines to the law, making it almost impossible to maintain/punish law breakers. What would the punishment be if you're smoking a legal substance at the work place? Also, what would you do with the people in jail for constantly smoking this drug? Are you going to release every single convict in the country because it's now legal, or do you keep them inside and let them finish their sentence?

In my opinion; it's just much simpler keeping it illegal, it's not as if the "law" enforces it hard anyway to be honest, where I live it just gets taken off you and the police leave -.-.

Do you think all drugs should be illegal? Why? (Alcohol is a drug)
Do I think all drugs should be illegal? The category substance drugs which are proven to cause damage, yes. Alcohol? I think the laws should be stricter, but shouldn't be illegal. Alcohol when you've not gone too far is completely safe. You can take any legal substance in the world and take too much for it to cause devastating affects. If alcohol would be made illegal, caffeine would have to become illegal too. It's an never-ending cycle.

 

[Phreak]

Nope. Marijuana believe it or not is illegal for a reason. No, it's not directly resulted in someone's death but it has been proven to cause (or help contribute to) mental illnesses such as Schizophrenia. Also, if it was legal it would double, maybe triple in popularity meaning even the people who didn't want to go near it will be walking in its fumes. Now, if it was legal but housebound, it's something I wouldn't be strongly against.

False, there is absolutely no clinical trials that show this as a fact. If you can point me to a single, credited source that shows diagnosed medical illness that is in direct relation to marijuana, then I will back down. The whole push for the legalization of Cannabis in California, is that there are no current medical clinical trials that show sociological illness' that can be directly linked with Marijuana.

As for the people walking into marijuana fumes, is this not the same with tobacco? Are you saying we should housebound tobacco? Absolutely not. Why is it so accepted to have tobacco, which is more dangerous than most things, legalized? You don't think that it is bothersome to walk through someone's tobacco smoke? The fact is, that if you took that away now, it would be an infringement on their rights. So, is it not an infringement on people's rights to not allow Cannabis, which was one of our most successful crops in the early stages of our country. In fact, the plant was sold at pharmacies all over the nation until the Vietnam incident. Now, I can't speak for laws in the UK, however, all of the things I'm posting are directly related to US law.

 

[Anxiety]

"An established link between marijuana and psychosis and schizophrenia has emerged in other respected research journals (Ashton 2001; Hall and Solowij 1998; Jha 2002; Johns 2001; Patton 2002). In a New Zealand study, Arseneault and colleagues discovered that using marijuana as an adolescent increases your risk for schizophrenia even after adjustment for pre-existing childhood psychoses (Arseneault et al 2002). Meta-analyses have found that eliminating marijuana use could reduce incidence of schizophrenia by 8% among a nation’s population (Arseneault et al 2004). In the U.S. that means that stopping marijuana use could reduce schizophrenia by more than 19,000 people."

http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/experts-agree-that-marijuana-contributes-to-mental-illness

That's the first one on Google too. Hundreds of sites with evidence.

 

[Phreak]

"An established link between marijuana and psychosis and schizophrenia has emerged in other respected research journals (Ashton 2001; Hall and Solowij 1998; Jha 2002; Johns 2001; Patton 2002). In a New Zealand study, Arseneault and colleagues discovered that using marijuana as an adolescent increases your risk for schizophrenia even after adjustment for pre-existing childhood psychoses (Arseneault et al 2002). Meta-analyses have found that eliminating marijuana use could reduce incidence of schizophrenia by 8% among a nation’s population (Arseneault et al 2004). In the U.S. that means that stopping marijuana use could reduce schizophrenia by more than 19,000 people."

http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/experts-agree-that-marijuana-contributes-to-mental-illness

That's the first one on Google too. Hundreds of sites with evidence.

All of these are so outdated. There is plenty of newer research that proves these otherwise. I want to find a site that is medically a credited, not some random website with medical quotes, that has posts about this topic from 2009+.
You can't take a site that's last post on the matter was in 2002 and not even in the US. Half of the people that were talking were from New Zealand.

 

[Balkan#1]

Drugs like acid? Crack? LSD? Meth? Xtc? Coke?

No.

Weed.

Yes

 

[Frenzied]

Drugs like acid? Crack? LSD? Meth? Xtc? Coke?

No.

Weed.

Yes

Simple. Straight. To the point. I like it. I completely agree. But maybe do the some thing as tobacco, make it illegal for 17 and under.

 

[Spaz]

Drugs like acid? Crack? LSD? Meth? Xtc? Coke?

No.

Weed.

Yes

Simple. Straight. To the point. I like it. I completely agree. But maybe do the some thing as tobacco, make it illegal for 17 and under.

This. +1

 

[Roobik]

You guys over looked the fact that weed is the "gateway" drug. It starts with something small and simple and then the subject moves onto stronger substances to quench their thirst.

 

[Spaz]

The same can be said about alcohol. That is legal and the effects aren't detrimental to society. I think that legalising weed will follow after the initial shock to society.

 

[Anxiety]

You guys over looked the fact that weed is the "gateway" drug. It starts with something small and simple and then the subject moves onto stronger substances to quench their thirst.

This. Many people don't understand the affects of Marijuana and other "smaller" drugs.

@Spaz: When you consume Alcohol, your body doesn't eventually get used to it and no longer get any affect from it. Meaning you don't want to do anything "stronger" to get that buzz.

 

[Phreak]

You guys over looked the fact that weed is the "gateway" drug. It starts with something small and simple and then the subject moves onto stronger substances to quench their thirst.

This. Many people don't understand the affects of Marijuana and other "smaller" drugs.

@Spaz: When you consume Alcohol, your body doesn't eventually get used to it and no longer get any affect from it. Meaning you don't want to do anything "stronger" to get that buzz.

How does that even make sense? You gain a higher alcohol tolerance and have to drink more and more to get the same effects.

Face it people, there is no difference between alcohol, tobacco and marijuana except that marijuana, in general, is safer. You cannot say that marijuana is the only "gateway drug". I've seen plenty of people who started drinking a lot, which caused them to party more. This then made them start using cocaine and other hardcore party drugs. You can't just class marijuana, by itself, as a gateway drug. Anything and everything can be considered a gateway drug, including tobacco.

No where in the chemical make-up of THC are there any, AT ALL, addicting chemicals or agents. Granted, the more you smoke, the more you like the high you are feeling and may not want to stop smoking, HOWEVER, there is no actual chemical property of marijuana that causes addiction. at all, end of story.

 

[Anxiety]

You obviously mis-understood the terms of "Gateway" in which Roobik was on about. Once you understand that, you will understand my post.

And Phreak, no offense but your posts are contained with lots of bullshit lol. You have zero proof that Marijuana isn't addictive, and doesn't contribute to mental illness, but if I point you to proof of otherwise it's out dated? Marijuana is illegal for a reason lol. It's something weed-smokers don't quite understand yet.

I have experienced and witnessed the exact effects of the substance itself first hand, which you can't beat. My Sister, and her boyfriend have had the worse-case scenario repercussions due to Marijuana. Don't believe me? The Doctor himself (I was there with my Sister, as she was too scared the Doctor was wearing a wire) even said that 70% of the reason that she's like she was, was because of smoking Marijuana daily.

Did you really just name "Tobacco" as a gateway drug? If you're speaking of the "social aspects" of smoking tobacco, then maybe. If you're speaking of the make up of Tobacco and the scientific bodily affects it has, then you're out of your damn mind lmao.

 

[TwEaK]

And Phreak, no offense but your posts are contained with lots of bullshit lol. You have zero proof that Marijuana isn't addictive, and doesn't contribute to mental illness, but if I point you to proof of otherwise it's out dated? Marijuana is illegal for a reason lol. It's something weed-smokers don't quite understand yet.

Crayo I have proof Marijuana isn't addictive. Me, I am a Cannabis smoker I smoke everyday about 2-4 blunts a day, depending on the day actually. I recently moved to another country have no connections no contacts nothing. I don't 'crave' Cannabis I don't have an urge to want to smoke it I don't even have the slightest twitch in my body to make me go crazy cause I don't have Cannabis to smoke and I have been smoking Cannabis for more then 5 years so back to your request is there proof it's not addicting yes where is it right here talking to you. I think I made my point.

 

[Anxiety]

You "think" your in control of it, but I guarantee you're not. I guarantee when you get stressed you think "I can do with a blunt" and then really want one, there's no point denying it. I'm not making a point on random internet sites, I'm making a point through real life experience. I know many people who have undertaken devastating affects and everyone of them have said Weed is the substance that contributes to their illness.

 

[TwEaK]

Well I understand what you mean, but my point was even if I wanted a blunt I'm not gonna kill myself over it so basically if I can't get it then oh well to bad maybe another day if not another day then another time to ME its not a big deal and even for as long as I've smoked Cannabis its not a big part of my life and thats how it will remain. Others think different but thats how I think , also btw nice talking to you Crayo

 

[Phreak]

I am living proof that it isn't addictive.
I'm just saying bro. It doesn't take much to research to positive sides of it. It's so easy to find negative sides because of the stereotypical persona that surrounds it. I've "detoxed" from both a marijuana smoking binge and a codeine binge and marijuana is nothing like it. The addictive properties of codeine make you literally not able to be healthy or active when not on it. If you don't take your daily codeine, you can't even get out of bed without feeling like your dying. Marijuana, on the other hand, has no mental psychological addictive agents like that.
Not trying to get off topic.

 

[Mandy]

Do you think your government should legalize marijuana but keep other narcotics illegal and why?:
I'll leave this unanswered until I can properly research and decide.

Do you think all drugs should be illegal? Why? (Alcohol is a drug):
People would take advantage so I'm against it. Wish mankind wasn't so damn dumb. Also think of the trafficking sites they use these drugs to disillusion their sex slaves, if it were made legal it would make it a whole lot easier. Additionally drugs don't benefit you when you, I'm not talking about when they're used in the practice of medication, Why do something if it's not beneficial? Smoking ruins your lungs, cocaine and all that other stuff is just bad for you. Plus there's that addiction factor for most of these drugs. For alcohol if it's taking responsibly I have no issue with it.

I'm a humanitarian so of course my opinions are a little biased..

 

[Anxiety]

I am living proof that it isn't addictive.
I'm just saying bro. It doesn't take much to research to positive sides of it. It's so easy to find negative sides because of the stereotypical persona that surrounds it. I've "detoxed" from both a marijuana smoking binge and a codeine binge and marijuana is nothing like it. The addictive properties of codeine make you literally not able to be healthy or active when not on it. If you don't take your daily codeine, you can't even get out of bed without feeling like your dying. Marijuana, on the other hand, has no mental psychological addictive agents like that.
Not trying to get off topic.

It's easier to find reasons to legalize it since there's so many people who smoke it and jump on the bandwagon lol. It's not addictive in every single person. Some people aren't addicted to smoking. I know someone who's been an on/off smoker for 3 years. She has quit for 4 months before just like that, but gets bored and uses it to socialize. Fact is, anyone can avoid addiction, but no one argues the addiction factors in nicotine.