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Christmas as a Federal Holiday

Nevermind

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First of all, I'm not bashing Christmas in anyway. Even though it is flawed, I will save that for another thread.

Why does everyone think that it is okay for Christmas to be a federal holiday? This is a religious holiday, and should be thought of as such. The separation of church and state is important for our country. It gives all religion an equal stance in the eye of the government and makes sure that they are not involved with the law making process or favored by the government in any way. Nonetheless, Christmas is a national holiday. This shows the Christian dominance within the government. If Christmas is a national holiday, then Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Malkh, Mawlid al-Nabi, Makar Sakranti, and Maghi should also be national holidays. I don't see why it is acceptable for the government to favor one religious holiday over any others.
 

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Simple said:
As long as we get school off, I don't care if its religious or federal holiday.

I'm not complaining about it having school off on that day. I just think it's unfair to favor one religious holiday over all of the others.
 

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Prepare said:
I see where your coming from, but I don't think it's a big deal.

It is a big deal, and should not be taken lightly. If Christmas can be made a national holiday in our government, what is there to stop them from the Ten Commandments as official law? What is stopping them from declaring any laws supporting or protecting any religion?
 

Aura

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It is symbolic that its considered a federal holiday, showing dominance over all other religions and non-religious people as you pointed out. That is unjust.

44 consecutive presidents of the United States, all consider themselves christian. Hmm.

The words "under god" are in our Pledge of Allegiance, although they were not originally in it.
The definiton of allegiance: loyalty or commitment of a subordinate to a superior or of an individual to a group or cause.
That is significant and very open to interpretation. It implies that those who do not not believe in god are not loyal or patriotic.

Our currency has "In god we trust" labeled on it. Again, it was not always that way.

I could go on. This is not a secular country. Christians are heavily favored in many aspects. They are the majority, and this country no longer represents equality in the religious department. There are many who want it to stay this way, because the priviledge applies to them. This country is fucked.
 

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Alt said:
It is symbolic that its considered a federal holiday, showing dominance over all other religions and non-religious people as you pointed out. That is unjust.

44 consecutive presidents of the United States, all consider themselves christian.

The words "under god" are in our Pledge of Allegiance, although they were not originally in it.
The definiton of allegiance: loyalty or commitment of a subordinate to a superior or of an individual to a group or cause.
That is significant and very open to interpretation.

Our currency has "In god we trust" labeled on it.

I could go on. This is not a secular country. Christians are heavily favored in many aspects. They are the majority, and this country no longer represents equality in the religious department.

Precisely.

If our founding fathers were to see what our country has become, they would be disgusted. Most of them were outstanding secularists, and some of them were on the verge of what is now considered atheism.
 

iDefy

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Leader said:
First of all, I'm not bashing Christmas in anyway. Even though it is flawed, I will save that for another thread.

Why does everyone think that it is okay for Christmas to be a federal holiday? This is a religious holiday, and should be thought of as such. The separation of church and state is important for our country. It gives all religion an equal stance in the eye of the government and makes sure that they are not involved with the law making process or favored by the government in any way. Nonetheless, Christmas is a national holiday. This shows the Christian dominance within the government. If Christmas is a national holiday, then Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Malkh, Mawlid al-Nabi, Makar Sakranti, and Maghi should also be national holidays. I don't see why it is acceptable for the government to favor one religious holiday over any others.

I agree with you on this, but if you look at the decisions that our government is making, they're mostly heavily based off of the beliefs of the Christian bible.

Take gay rights for an example. People that argue against it, say that it's not what GOD intended us to do as human beings, yet, the government that is supposed to separate church and state allow that as a VALID argument, when it should immediately be shut down and thrown out of courts.

I agree that this government is incredibly biased, and support your argument 100%. Let's take down the government.
 
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Stop watching fox news. Christmas is a traditional holiday that focuses on the gathering of family and friends. Gifts are optional and more than less something for the children.
 

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TypicalWhiteGuy said:
Stop watching fox news. Christmas is a traditional holiday that focuses on the gathering of family and friends. Gifts are optional and more than less something for the children.

The statement you just expressed is something similar that I have heard many times on Fox News. I understand what Christmas means, and all that. However, it is a religious holiday, which means it shouldn't be a federal holiday.
 

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Mike said:
It may be religious but to everyone it's just a Holliday like thanks giving

Why does that make it acceptable? Who thinks that allowing the government to favor one religion over another is acceptable?
 

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Leader said:
Why does that make it acceptable? Who thinks that allowing the government to favor one religion over another is acceptable?

It's not but Christmas isn't really viewed as a religious day in anymore it's about family and giving not whatever religious religious relevance it has but I do agree with you .
 

Aura

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Mike said:
It's not but Christmas isn't really viewed as a religious day in anymore it's about family and giving not whatever religious religious relevance it has but I do agree with you .

You're taking your perception on what the holiday means to you and applying it to everyone else. You cannot speak on behalf of others that way. At its root, its a Pagan holiday of the winter solstice. It was hijacked by christianity, and now it has been hijacked by consumerism, violence and greediness.

Christmas is by definiton the celebration of Jesus' birthday. There is zero ground for you to make here. It is a religious holiday favored by the United States government. Secularism is the seperation of church and state, and clearly this breaches it.
 

Burt

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I personally am a Christian, but I think you've forgotten the one fundamental point here. The United States always has and always will be One Nation, Under God. That's not going to change, ever. As far as them enacting the Ten Commandments into federal law, it pretty much already is ><! Murder, check. Theft, check. Adultery, in some areas. Even if you're not religious, these things should all be practiced naturally for any good human-being. Honor your parents, don't cheat on your wife, don't lie/cheat/steal/kill.

Back OT, though, Christmas isn't going anywhere. People are free to express and celebrate whatever holiday traditions they want, but the US as a whole always has and always will be a Christian nation. The ONLY way this will ever change is if somehow all politicians are eliminated and our country falls into anarchy and marshal law becomes commonplace. That's not likely ever going to happen, though.


Alt said:
Secularism is the seperation of church and state, and clearly this breaches it.

You said it all with that one sentence. America isn't a secular nation. Yes, we practice some secular laws, but America is one of the top Christian nations in the world. Our country was founded by Christians (for the most part), our first laws were drafted by them and it's not going to change.
 

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Fap_Dong said:
I personally am a Christian, but I think you've forgotten the one fundamental point here. The United States always has and always will be One Nation, Under God. That's not going to change, ever. As far as them enacting the Ten Commandments into federal law, it pretty much already is ><! Murder, check. Theft, check. Adultery, in some areas. Even if you're not religious, these things should all be practiced naturally for any good human-being. Honor your parents, don't cheat on your wife, don't lie/cheat/steal/kill.

Back OT, though, Christmas isn't going anywhere. People are free to express and celebrate whatever holiday traditions they want, but the US as a whole always has and always will be a Christian nation. The ONLY way this will ever change is if somehow all politicians are eliminated and our country falls into anarchy and marshal law becomes commonplace. That's not likely ever going to happen, though.

The United States was founded on secular ideas, and we have moved away from them. I don't think I've forgotten anything. What you seem to have forgotten is the separation of church and state, and how religion should have no place in government.

Fap_Dong said:
Our country was founded by Christians (for the most part), our first laws were drafted by them and it's not going to change.

Our country was founded by secularists, and most of them were leaning more towards atheism than Christianity. However, that wasn't an acceptable school of though at that time, which is probably why they stayed in the "closet."
 

Burt

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Leader said:
Our country was founded by secularists, and most of them were leaning more towards atheism than Christianity. However, that wasn't an acceptable school of though at that time, which is probably why they stayed in the "closet."

No.

Ben Franklin-After the disillusioning experience of seeing the decay in his own moral standards, and those of two friends in London whom he had converted to Deism, Franklin turned back to a belief in the importance of organized religion, on the pragmatic grounds that without God and organized churches, man will not be good. Moreover, because of his proposal that prayers be said in the Constitutional Convention of 1787, many have contended that in his later life, Franklin became a pious Christian.

George Washington-There has been a huge controversy, to put it mildly, about Washington's religious beliefs. Before the Revolutionary War he was Anglican – Church of England – which meant after the war, he was Episcopalian. So, he was clearly Christian ... He was quite intensely religious, because even though he uses the word Providence, he constantly sees Providence as an active force in life, particularly in American life. I mean, every single victory in war he credits to Providence. The miracle of the Constitutional Convention he credits to Providence. The creation of the federal government and the prosperity of the early republic, he credits to Providence ... I was struck at how frequently in his letters he's referring to Providence, and it's Providence where there's a sense of design and purpose, which sounds to me very much like religion ... Unfortunately, this particular issue has become very, very politicized.

Thomas Jefferson-Jefferson praised the morality of Jesus and edited a compilation of his teachings, omitting the miracles and supernatural elements of the biblical account, titling it The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. Jefferson was firmly anticlerical saying that in "every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot...they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes.

John Adams-According to his biographer David McCullough, "as his family and friends knew, Adams was both a devout Christian, and an independent thinker".

Abraham Lincoln-As a young man, Lincoln was clearly a religious skeptic, or, in the words of a biographer, even an iconoclast. Later in life, Lincoln's frequent use of religious imagery and language might have reflected his own personal beliefs or might have been a device to appeal to his audiences, who were mostly evangelical Protestants. He never joined a church, although he frequently attended with his wife, but he was deeply familiar with the Bible, quoted it and praised it.

John Jay- Jay was a member of the Church of England, and later of the Protestant Episcopal Church in America after the American Revolution. Since 1785, Jay had been a warden of Trinity Church, New York. As Congress's Secretary for Foreign Affairs, he supported the proposal after the Revolution that the Archbishop of Canterbury approve the ordination of bishops for the Episcopal Church in the United States. He argued unsuccessfully in the provincial convention for a prohibition against Catholics holding office.

Alexander Hamilton- Religion
Presbyterian, Episcopalian (convert)

The only notable 'maybe' is James Madison.
 

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Fap_Dong said:
No.

Ben Franklin-After the disillusioning experience of seeing the decay in his own moral standards, and those of two friends in London whom he had converted to Deism, Franklin turned back to a belief in the importance of organized religion, on the pragmatic grounds that without God and organized churches, man will not be good. Moreover, because of his proposal that prayers be said in the Constitutional Convention of 1787, many have contended that in his later life, Franklin became a pious Christian.

George Washington-There has been a huge controversy, to put it mildly, about Washington's religious beliefs. Before the Revolutionary War he was Anglican – Church of England – which meant after the war, he was Episcopalian. So, he was clearly Christian ... He was quite intensely religious, because even though he uses the word Providence, he constantly sees Providence as an active force in life, particularly in American life. I mean, every single victory in war he credits to Providence. The miracle of the Constitutional Convention he credits to Providence. The creation of the federal government and the prosperity of the early republic, he credits to Providence ... I was struck at how frequently in his letters he's referring to Providence, and it's Providence where there's a sense of design and purpose, which sounds to me very much like religion ... Unfortunately, this particular issue has become very, very politicized.

Thomas Jefferson-Jefferson praised the morality of Jesus and edited a compilation of his teachings, omitting the miracles and supernatural elements of the biblical account, titling it The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. Jefferson was firmly anticlerical saying that in "every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot...they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes.

John Adams-According to his biographer David McCullough, "as his family and friends knew, Adams was both a devout Christian, and an independent thinker".

Abraham Lincoln-As a young man, Lincoln was clearly a religious skeptic, or, in the words of a biographer, even an iconoclast. Later in life, Lincoln's frequent use of religious imagery and language might have reflected his own personal beliefs or might have been a device to appeal to his audiences, who were mostly evangelical Protestants. He never joined a church, although he frequently attended with his wife, but he was deeply familiar with the Bible, quoted it and praised it.

John Jay- Jay was a member of the Church of England, and later of the Protestant Episcopal Church in America after the American Revolution. Since 1785, Jay had been a warden of Trinity Church, New York. As Congress's Secretary for Foreign Affairs, he supported the proposal after the Revolution that the Archbishop of Canterbury approve the ordination of bishops for the Episcopal Church in the United States. He argued unsuccessfully in the provincial convention for a prohibition against Catholics holding office.

Alexander Hamilton- Religion
Presbyterian, Episcopalian (convert)

The only notable 'maybe' is James Madison.

"The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true. They were Freethinkers who relied on their reason, not their faith."

This does not change the fact that they were all secularists.
 

Burt

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The things I posted, literally, are historical facts. Even Ben Franklin, whom many consider at the forefront of the Freemasons and one of country's most iconic ideologists, who applied logic and reason to every facet of life, was a Christian. It can NOT be debated. I didn't write that shit out, it's factual knowledge.
 
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