Debunking Any and All Arguments for the Existence of a God

[Nevermind]

ok, but there's a small issue. If the Mayans were to create a list sorting out rights an wrongs, they would put human sacrifice as being good. however other people would say human sacrifice is bad. this creates inconsistency and unreliability. therefore humans are incapable of creating their own objective values independently. only morals that are professed as truths by a god can decidedly good or bad.

They aren't basing it off of human suffering or happiness, they based it off of the superstitions and beliefs about the supernatural that they held. Please re-word your last claim.

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

They aren't basing it off of human suffering or happiness, they based it off of the superstitions and beliefs about the supernatural that they held. Please re-word your last claim.

this is what I'm claiming.
Humans are incapable of creating absolute moral truths.
Absolute moral truths can only be created by an absolute being.
Therefore, humans must rely on the absolute morals presented by an absolute God.

 

[Nevermind]

this is what I'm claiming.
Humans are incapable of creating absolute moral truths.
Absolute moral truths can only be created by an absolute being.
Therefore, humans must rely on the absolute morals presented by an absolute God.

Here is what I'm saying. Science can teach us objective truths about human well-being. Morality is all about the well-being of thinking creatures. Therefore, science can teach us about morality.

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

Here is what I'm saying. Science can teach us objective truths about human well-being. Morality is all about the well-being of thinking creatures. Therefore, science can teach us about morality.

I see what you mean, but by having morals by God, there is an incentive to do them because of heaven and hell. Also, regardless of what science tells us, people will always act towards their desires.

 

[Nevermind]

I see what you mean, but by having morals by God, there is an incentive to do them because of heaven and hell. Also, regardless of what science tells us, people will always act towards their desires.

That's not really being a moral person, though. It's forcing you to be good on pain of eternal torture and damnation. You're only doing it to save your ass. Plus, that's not a very moral god in the first place.

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

That's not really being a moral person, though. It's forcing you to be good on pain of eternal torture and damnation. You're only doing it to save your ass. Plus, that's not a very moral god in the first place.

ok, but this is still a better system to rely on over moral relativism. science can't tell us tha rape is wrong. all it does is say that the victim is affected negatively. that does not tell us that we shouldn't rape. if I was a satanist, I would think rape is good, because it allows me to assert dominance and do as I please. we need to indoctrinate morals as being truths proclaimed by God with ultimate reward or punishment.

 

[Nevermind]

ok, but this is still a better system to rely on over moral relativism. science can't tell us tha rape is wrong. all it does is say that the victim is affected negatively. that does not tell us that we shouldn't rape. if I was a satanist, I would think rape is good, because it allows me to assert dominance and do as I please. we need to indoctrinate morals as being truths proclaimed by God with ultimate reward or punishment.

The morals taught by the Bible condone rape, slavery, and genocide. I would prefer that we don't indoctrinate those morals into our society. I can provide several verses if you wish.

Science can tell us that rape causes trauma, human suffering, mental and physical pain, and even more. Therefore, since it causes such negative things, it is wrong.

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

The morals taught by the Bible condone rape, slavery, and genocide. I would prefer that we don't indoctrinate those morals into our society. I can provide several verses if you wish.

Science can tell us that rape causes trauma, human suffering, mental and physical pain, and even more. Therefore, since it causes such negative things, it is wrong.

ok everyone always talks about the Old Testament and all the shit in it, but for the record Jesus said that he came to revise the old law. so contemporary Christians follow Jesus' teahings, which do not condone rape, genocide, or stuff like that. Jesus was good guy. but anyway I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying that science can't prove the effects of our actions, because it can. But it does not prove "rape hurts people, so don't do it," and here's why. everyone has their own perspective on an issue. and the issue of rape is a man made one, so people will all have different subjective views on it. therefore a perspective from an omniscient being that is not man would be the end all be all in declaring the morality of the issue.

 

[Nevermind]

ok everyone always talks about the Old Testament and all the shit in it, but for the record Jesus said that he came to revise the old law. so contemporary Christians follow Jesus' teahings, which do not condone rape, genocide, or stuff like that. Jesus was good guy. but anyway I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying that science can't prove the effects of our actions, because it can. But it does not prove "rape hurts people, so don't do it," and here's why. everyone has their own perspective on an issue. and the issue of rape is a man made one, so people will all have different subjective views on it. therefore a perspective from an omniscient being that is not man would be the end all be all in declaring the morality of the issue.

That's not true. Even if it were, it wouldn't make sense. First of all, Jesus says he has come "not to abolish the law" but to "fulfill it". He makes no note about any of the laws or commands about rape, slavery, or genocide. Even if he did say he was coming to revise it, the Old Testament claims to be the perfect word of God. Is it not?

Think of this issue about morality in a different sense. I'll use health as an analogy. There are objectively correct ways to achieve good health, as well as objectively wrong ways. We learn this through the medical sciences. However, there are people who choose the opposite route and consider it acceptable to fill themselves with poisons. Does that undermine the objective truths about good health? No, it does not.

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

That's not true. Even if it were, it wouldn't make sense. First of all, Jesus says he has come "not to abolish the law" but to "fulfill it". He makes no note about any of the laws or commands about rape, slavery, or genocide. Even if he did say he was coming to revise it, the Old Testament claims to be the perfect word of God. Is it not?

Think of this issue about morality in a different sense. I'll use health as an analogy. There are objectively correct ways to achieve good health, as well as objectively wrong ways. We learn this through the medical sciences. However, there are people who choose the opposite route and consider it acceptable to fill themselves with poisons. Does that undermine the objective truths about good health? No, it does not.

for your first rebuttal, read the link I will post below.
for your second rebuttal, allow me to clarfiy. I'm not saying that humans are lost as moral people without God, rather I'm saying that a moral system based on God is more successful and efficient in certain moral people. also, drugs are not the same type of moral issue. pre martial sex would be a good one. marriage is man made, and therefore it's your own opinion that allows you to have a view on the subject, but God says it's wrong. worsening your health despite empirical evidence is not having bad morals really as much as it's just being ignorant. but I understand what you are saying.
http://www.libchrist.com/bible/sermonmount.html

 

[Nevermind]

for your first rebuttal, read the link I will post below.
for your second rebuttal, allow me to clarfiy. I'm not saying that humans are lost as moral people without God, rather I'm saying that a moral system based on God is more successful and efficient in certain moral people. also, drugs are not the same type of moral issue. pre martial sex would be a good one. marriage is man made, and therefore it's your own opinion that allows you to have a view on the subject, but God says it's wrong. worsening your health despite empirical evidence is not having bad morals really as much as it's just being ignorant. but I understand what you are saying.
http://www.libchrist.com/bible/sermonmount.html

That article doesn't say anything about the commands from God to the Hebrews. He literally commands them to commit genocide and rape the virgins. Is that your definition of morality? Plus, the passages of slavery are still unchanged.

'Even if he did say he was coming to revise it, the Old Testament claims to be the perfect word of God. Is it not?'

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

That article doesn't say anything about the commands from God to the Hebrews. He literally commands them to commit genocide and rape the virgins. Is that your definition of morality? Plus, the passages of slavery are still unchanged.

'Even if he did say he was coming to revise it, the Old Testament claims to be the perfect word of God. Is it not?'

ok, I'm not a bible scholar (I'm an atheist just doing this for sake of debate) but the article actually does make sense. it shows that the 'law and the prophets' is actually just to simply love God and your neighbor. and Jesus is not trying to revoke that. but if you want to get specific, I'm pretty sure we can unanimously agree that the Old Testament is not an accepted source of moral guidance in the 21st century and it was never intended to do so.
also, address my second point.

 

[RIP Mocking]

i was raised in a home with both of my parents practiced being a good catholic , me on the other hand have never really thought it made sense, its just illogical to think some , supreme being is able to just grant things out of the blue , but then i go into thinking who wrote the bible , i started to overthink this and i began to assume it was just people who wanted to explain how the world came to become , without science or any logical explanation around those times people would just make up stories to explain everything , just how i see this , also with all these religions that are so similar i seen it as certain people would disagree with how stories went and decided to branch off since most of religions have similar stories

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

i was raised in a home with both of my parents practiced being a good catholic , me on the other hand have never really thought it made sense, its just illogical to think some , supreme being is able to just grant things out of the blue , but then i go into thinking who wrote the bible , i started to overthink this and i began to assume it was just people who wanted to explain how the world came to become , without science or any logical explanation around those times people would just make up stories to explain everything , just how i see this , also with all these religions that are so similar i seen it as certain people would disagree with how stories went and decided to branch off since most of religions have similar stories

yes and that isn't an accident. all monotheistic religions (most religions actually) all branch from Zoroastrianism.

 

[Nevermind]

ok, I'm not a bible scholar (I'm an atheist just doing this for sake of debate) but the article actually does make sense. it shows that the 'law and the prophets' is actually just to simply love God and your neighbor. and Jesus is not trying to revoke that. but if you want to get specific, I'm pretty sure we can unanimously agree that the Old Testament is not an accepted source of moral guidance in the 21st century and it was never intended to do so.
also, address my second point.

I wouldn't even consider Jesus a good moral teacher. His lessons, the good ones, were all mentioned hundreds of years before his time.

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

I wouldn't even consider Jesus a good moral teacher. His lessons, the good ones, were all mentioned hundreds of years before his time.

ok but regardless Jesus is undoubtedly one of the most important people in human history and probably one of the greatest. anyway I'm gonna call it quits on this debate, I can't support the bible anymore it hurts too hard. kudos @Leader

 

[Nevermind]

I'm looking to hear some more arguments.

 

[Aura]

ok but regardless Jesus is undoubtedly one of the most important people in human history and probably one of the greatest. anyway I'm gonna call it quits on this debate, I can't support the bible anymore it hurts too hard. kudos @Leader

Everything about Jesus was stolen. Not just his teachings which Leader pointed out, but his whole story was jacked from deities of prior civilizations hundreds to thousands of years before jesus even came around. Look up Sol, Mithra and Horus and compare their stories to Jesus' story. The star in the east, the 12 diciples, te virgin birth on December 25th. IT'S ALL STOLEN. Those are just a couple examples. If that isn't proof that Jesus probably never existed then I don't know what is. Christianity itself is just a knock of of Paganism. They stole the holidays and everything. The facts are there, people just ignore them and are ignorant of them. I know you're an atheist, im just pointing out that I don't think Jesus even existed, let alone performed those miracles. If he did he was most likely a skitzo. I don't know how you can not believe in god but believe that someone who claimed he was the son of of god existed..

 

[NULLNULLNULL]

Everything about Jesus was stolen. Not just his teachings which Leader pointed out, but his whole story was jacked from deities of prior civilizations hundreds to thousands of years before jesus even came around. Look up Sol, Mithra and Horus and compare their stories to Jesus' story. The star in the east, the 12 diciples, te virgin birth on December 25th. IT'S ALL STOLEN. Those are just a couple examples. If that isn't proof that Jesus probably never existed then I don't know what is. Christianity itself is just a knock of of Paganism. They stole the holidays and everything. The facts are there, people just ignore them and are ignorant of them. I know you're an atheist, im just pointing out that I don't think Jesus even existed, let alone performed those miracles. If he did he was most likely a skitzo. I don't know how you can not believe in god but believe that someone who claimed he was the son of of god existed..

I have no support whatsoever for anything Christian. There is evidence that Jesus existed. Whether or not he was what history says he was is up for debate. But regardless you cannot deny that he was the greatest influence to humanity like ever.

 

[Nevermind]

I have no support whatsoever for anything Christian. There is evidence that Jesus existed. Whether or not he was what history says he was is up for debate. But regardless you cannot deny that he was the greatest influence to humanity like ever.

He had an insanely large influence, but I would not consider it positive.