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I am a Catholic seminarian; I was a very respected member on FK. Ask me anything!

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Aura

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Can you provide to me even a shred of proof that supports the claims you are making and/or supporting? For instance you claim that god made science. I want proof of that, and if you cannot follow through with showing me logically and rationaly, dont make the claim. You only contribute to the negative reputation that everything you represent has when you protrude such arrogance and ignorance. Im not being rude or hostile, im being honest.

Also, you claimed that divine intervention still is present in todays world, just less than it was in the past. Provide a logical reason as to why that is, not a convenient one. After you think about that, I want you to think about this:

Take basically any disaster that has occured, or will occur. The severity and rate of occurance of these disasters seem to be increasing, be it natural or caused my man. God has stated that we are all created in his image. Now, when one of these disasters occur, be it a school shooting or a hurricane, lives are lost at the hand of who? And for what? Your god is also said to be omniscient and omnipotent. That being said, when the next disaster occurs, what is your explanation:

1. God knew about it, but didnt have the power to stop it.
2. God knew about it and had the power to stop it, but didnt.
3. God doesnt exist.


If you can think of more logical possibilities, by all means share them with me. If you claim that there is a justifiable reason for these things that happen and gods role in it, but you cannot explain it or the reason for it, I will laugh at you. That is not a loophole, or an option.
 

ASPM

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I'll get back to answer these sometime this weekend/Monday, super busy right now. Stay tuned!
 

Aura

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ASPM said:
I'll get back to answer these sometime this weekend/Monday, super busy right now. Stay tuned!

Dont forget. I look forward to a direct response to my last post.
 

Aura

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Ample time has been given. I am not letting this get lost in the clutter. It is time to respond, ASPM.
 

ASPM

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I apologize for not responding promptly, seminary is as busy if not busier than a full time job, and responding on here is one of the lower priorities. I'll try to get it done this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
 

Aura

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ASPM said:
I apologize for not responding promptly, seminary is as busy if not busier than a full time job, and responding on here is one of the lower priorities. I'll try to get it done this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

Great, looking forward to it.
 

Bubba

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Just curious, if you were a member of good standing, the community liked you, and you were not ban evading..what ARE you hiding? Because obviously there's something besides being anonymous going on here.
 

ASPM

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Cann!bal said:
Here's a simple one concerning the Church.

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

Catholics are taught to call priests Father out of religious respect.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/call-no-man-father


You choose to keep your faith in Catholicism after being indoctrinated most likely during your childhood.

That is essentially saying anyone who believes in what they were taught as a child was indoctrinated.

Science and religion do contradict.

Creationists believe dinosaurs did exist and that they coexisted with mankind.

Catholicism does not teach creationism, but theistic evolution.


Prayer has been scientifically proven to not help, the studies actually showed that the ones who were prayed and were aware, had more complications than the ones who weren't prayed for by a slightly significant percentage.

The information I can find on studies say that the field is relatively tiny and not well researched. A few studies can't be taken as proof. Also doesn't disprove God in any way.

As for free will; do you define God as either or both omniscient and omnipotent?

Yes. And I know what you're going to say. Just because I know something will happend doesn't make it happen, though does it?


But they mindlessly killed the heretics anyways. Hypothetically speaking, God is in charge of everything, so according to your logic, everything that has ever happened is God's fault.

God being in charge of everything doesn't mean ?He causes everything. A CEO is in charge of a company but doesn't control everything that happens. God didn't approve of all the massive killings some people did in the name of the Church. There are bad people in the world who don't always align with God. Deal with it.


Mine is the first one. All others broke off from it and the doctrine and dogma of Catholics has remained relatively solid throughout the millenia.

Labeling it as an unfathomable concept is a logical fallacy, it's an argument from ignorance. The Church does not require reason, don't be silly.

God is outside of our world. Outside of our dimensions. We can't understand the fourth or fifth dimensions. How can we understand God, who is outside of time itself?


Many philosophers, also believed slavery was justifiable, ironically, Aristotle and Aquinas were both apart of that troop. Aquinas even thought it hitting a slave was acceptable behavior. They were brilliant, but also ignorant.

Yeah, and so did many of America's founding fathers and other historical leaders. They had many things right but some things wrong.



In what world does that prove it is fraudulent? It is living flesh, in no way artificially preserved, that has not decayed in 1,500 years.


Please explain the origin of God without making a logical fallacy.

God does not need an origin as He is outside of time. He always was, is, and will be. Once again, out of our dimensions. We can't understand.


Next...


I said that in response to a person who believes in God already. If you believe in God, you know God made science.


If that was suposed to be a logically/philosophically valid/sound argument, it isn't. I apologize if I seem arrogant, but you have "Philosophy" in your signature and you should know that it isn't.

I'll try to lay out your argument in a logically valid form.

(1) If God is omniscient, then he knows about all evil.
(2) If God is omnipotent, he would stop all evil he knows about.
(3) God is omniscient and omnipotent.
(4) Therefore, God would stop all evil he knows about. (by hypothetical syllogism and modus ponens)

I reject premise 2.

(1) If God gave humans free will, then he would not interfere with it.
(2) If God would not interfere with free will, he would not directly intervene to stop evil.
(3) God gave humans free will.
(4) Therefore, God would not directly intervene to stop evil. (again by hypothetical syllogism and modus ponens)

Evil exists. God did not make evil, evil is the lack of good. Because God gave us free will, we can reject good and choose evil. Whoever does so will receive their reward. Whoever is a victim of evil will receive comfort. Karma, boom.



Bubba said:
Just curious, if you were a member of good standing, the community liked you, and you were not ban evading..what ARE you hiding? Because obviously there's something besides being anonymous going on here.

I have been Dox'ed before and am not currently in a position where I want it publicly known across all the sites I am on that I am a seminarian. Unfortunately many people would lose respect for me.
 

Cann!bal

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ASPM said:
That is essentially saying anyone who believes in what they were taught as a child was indoctrinated.

Yes, and that's essentially true. However, those beliefs are based off sound evidence, and not a 2000-year-old book written by primitive and ignorant men.

Catholicism does not teach creationism, but theistic evolution.

I fail to see the correlation of your post to mine. I never stated Catholicism teaches creationism. I was addressing a mistake you made.

The information I can find on studies say that the field is relatively tiny and not well researched. A few studies can't be taken as proof. Also doesn't disprove God in any way.

I never stated it disproved God, and I'm very much aware that God is an unfalsifiable concept.


Your analogy is flawed, a CEO in charge of a company isn't an omniscient and omnipotent dictator of the universe. Don't make claims you don't know are true.

Mine is the first one. All others broke off from it and the doctrine and dogma of Catholics has remained relatively solid throughout the millenia.

I'm honestly shocked that you claimed you claimed that, since that's so blatantly not true. By first one, you do mean first denomination or branch, correct? And not religion?

God is outside of our world. Outside of our dimensions. We can't understand the fourth or fifth dimensions. How can we understand God, who is outside of time itself?

Your logic is based upon a foundation of logical fallacies. How could your logic be any bit reliable?

Yeah, and so did many of America's founding fathers and other historical leaders. They had many things right but some things wrong.

Our founding fathers and large a majority of historical leaders were primitive and ignorant men.

In what world does that prove it is fraudulent? It is living flesh, in no way artificially preserved, that has not decayed in 1,500 years.

This world apparently. It's not living, it's dead flesh. It's been preserved for 1,500 years.

Stop believing such ridiculous claims without inquiry.

God does not need an origin as He is outside of time. He always was, is, and will be. Once again, out of our dimensions. We can't understand.

Labeling him outside of time is a cop out, hence a logical fallacy.

As for God being eternal:


Please attempt again.
 

Aura

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Next...


I said that in response to a person who believes in God already. If you believe in God, you know God made science.


If that was suposed to be a logically/philosophically valid/sound argument, it isn't. I apologize if I seem arrogant, but you have "Philosophy" in your signature and you should know that it isn't.

I'll try to lay out your argument in a logically valid form.

(1) If God is omniscient, then he knows about all evil.
(2) If God is omnipotent, he would stop all evil he knows about.
(3) God is omniscient and omnipotent.
(4) Therefore, God would stop all evil he knows about. (by hypothetical syllogism and modus ponens)

I reject premise 2.

(1) If God gave humans free will, then he would not interfere with it.
(2) If God would not interfere with free will, he would not directly intervene to stop evil.
(3) God gave humans free will.
(4) Therefore, God would not directly intervene to stop evil. (again by hypothetical syllogism and modus ponens)

Evil exists. God did not make evil, evil is the lack of good. Because God gave us free will, we can reject good and choose evil. Whoever does so will receive their reward. Whoever is a victim of evil will receive comfort. Karma, boom.

[/quote]

1) You should stay away from the if's. They do no good for your argument. And you should stay away from justifying your argument with god and/or the bible, for I do no believe in either. You are speaking to an atheist. I would assume you are aware that I consider this post completely irrelevant and worth nothing based on the above reasons. If you want to try again, speaking from a moral perspective then so be it. But dont ensue YOUR personal "understanding" of god so deeply within your answer. If you must do so to answer the question, just stop now. Again, I hold that at zero relevance.

2) You reject it, now explain why. As of now I believe it is because there is no way to answer that without contradicting yourself and proving you're an ass who doesnt know what he's talking about. Are you implying divine intervention does not exist? Doesn't the catholic church indulge in prayer often? Explain, or I will explain for you.

3. Why would he give us free will knowing that many would not make it to the promise land? Doesnt he love us all equally? Oh, just to see who followed him, right? What a sick fucking game. Eve ate the apple, so now the rest of humanity is burdened with inevitable sin, in which we are punished for eternally. Just doesnt make sense to me. You cannot justify everything your religion stands for. Therfore your religion is not a peaceful one. Get out.

If I could take your life I would. It would be so worth it to save the possible hundreds or thousands of children you will participate in brainwashing. You sicken me. You cannot explain everything, hardly anything. And at the end of the day, it doesnt all add up. There is no factual proof of god. Your whole mission is a leap of faith that will negatively effect others, and society as a whole. You are a disease in the most intelligent form, that I am aware of. Its scary, and its sickening. You're like a terrorist on a plane, attempting to overthrow it and hurt others in the name of your own belief in which you cannot prove nor justify. What went so wrong with you?
 

Quattro

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Who do you align yourself with more. Aristotle or Augustine?
 

ASPM

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Alt said:
1) You should stay away from the if's.

You obviously don't know philosophy then. It's a standard format.

Alt said:
If I could take your life I would.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm out.

It's been good talking to you all, and Cann!bal I'd love to respond to every one of your comments. It's good to be able to have calm discussion. But seriously, a death threat? Even in jest that is in no way appropriate and if I still had standing on FK with my old account you would be gone from this community.

Goodbye all, been good talking to you.
 

Cann!bal

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I made no death threat, what are you talking about?

Later Paul.

EDIT: Realized that was directed to Alt.
 
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