Executioner said:I am aware of your manifestations and I would like to ask, how the Big Bang theory made itself without a source. That single string that could have made all the sub atomic particles, where did that single string came from and how was it composed, how did the energy erupted or evolved into something? How was temperature made that made the object erupted a split second that scattered planets in our universe?
Alt said:Well, these are man-made laws. I had to stop after step 3 because of this. Mathematics is just as fabricated as time, both are systems created by someone somewhere to put everyone on the same page about something. Plus, perception weighs in here whether you would like to admit it or not. I barely got passed step one. It isnt absolutely true that I dont know if I believe in absolute truth or not. If something truely is absolutely true, then it cannot change over time, can it? The question iteself is a matter of opinion, thats why you have 3 choices. At any given time my answer could be different, so how could I have an absolutely true answer that changes? There's a gap there, its a bit of a contradiction. The concept of absolute truth to me is very pushy, too clean cut, and is annoying. It doesnt allow people much room to breath, and again if its a matter of technical opinion, I dont know if there is any one topic that every single person that has ever existed can agree upon, which would by definition fill what Absolute Truth is, am I correct? For the most part the same questions wouldnt apply, and even if they did, everyone would have to be able to prove their answer individually while being held to the same standard of using Absolute Truth to prove Absolute Truth. It is literally a regress argument.
Anyway, this is your attempt to prove that god exists from a philosophical standpoint, and that is very key to note. All you have is words here. Nothing more, which to me doesnt amount to much considering you're claiming and advocating the existance of a deity. Discretion and skepticism are key here. If someone tells you the paint is wet, you will touch it before agreeing with them. Lets say that hypothetically, your life depended on it. You are not fucking around with philosphy to prove that it is or isnt wet, you're going to find out the only real sure way. And that is to make physical, conscious contact with it. We all use this logic everyday for everything. If someone of medical expertise tells you that you have a brain tumor and that you will need to undergo multiple surgeries. Arent you going to want to see the results of the MRI first? To have them explain everything in as much understandable detail as possible? Furthermore, are you going rely on god, or the surgeon to fix this? We all know the answers to these questions and its time that people start being honest. Divine intervention does not exist. If it does, its not from any god that anyone on this Earth worships. And that statement is flirting with absolute truth itself. Nobody wants to admit it though.
I need not waste more time re-iterating the same mountains of proof I have repeatedly presented to people of faith that completely decimates every argument they have given me. At this point its cognitive dissonance. I hope that in my lifetime we are free of the burden religion has bestowed upon humanity for so long, and the arguments are over, and the brain washing has ceased. I dont know if that will ever happened to be honest. Thats all I have to say for now, but I'll leave you with this picture. Hopefully you will see how this is tied to divine intervention:
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Its one or the other; prayer does not exist because divine intervention exists, or prayer does not exist because divine intervention does not exist. I can prove its the second one, because I can prove that divine intervention of (your god) does not exist. But either way, prayer is useless. And if prayer is useless, then on the human end of the relationship, divine intervention doesnt exist. And if you are of faith, I would cling to that theory, of divine intervention not existing. Because if you want to argue it does, you will be held responsible for explaining all of the things that happen in this world, by the hand of your god(s). And if you cannot do so then you cannot make the claim. Regardless of your answers to my questions, you will be forced to change your understanding and interpretation of how god works. Unless of course you already agree with me, or can prove me wrong.
Of what faith do you consider yourself? If you dont label yourself any religion, explain what you're relationship and understanding of god is. It would help me to know who I am dealing with here.
Michael said:Hi, I read your last post and I was completely unaware of the replies that have been posted on this thread, apologies for all inconvenience.
I would like to start off by pointing out, if you do not know that God is proven; logically. Why should such doubt exist? “The fool has said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalm 14:1). This scripture is repeated in Psalm 53:1. What follows will explain why God calls atheists “fools.” Matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. There are no natural processes that can alter either matter or energy in this way.
Thermodynamics; There is absolutely no new matter or energy coinciding with existence, and there is no matter or energy leaving existence. Those who state the universe came to be violate the first law of thermodynamics, which was also created by a very active community of Science who are now supposedly ignoring it? In summary, this law plainly demonstrates that the universe, and all matter and energy within it, must have had a divine origin a specific moment in which it was created by someone who was all-powerful.
If you didn't know, prayer has also been proven scientifically. The proof is ample. A study of 90,000+ people in a rural community had 50% less deaths from heart disease then those who do not attend the Church. 53% also had fewer suicides. Many doctors believe that if they prayed with their patients before and after surgery or before administering a course of powerful drugs, this treatment might assist in the patient's recovery. There is also more proof which I will post when I get back home, leaving to school now. Praying for you!!
Michael said:Hi, I read your last post and I was completely unaware of the replies that have been posted on this thread, apologies for all inconvenience.
I would like to start off by pointing out, if you do not know that God is proven; logically. Why should such doubt exist? “The fool has said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalm 14:1). This scripture is repeated in Psalm 53:1. What follows will explain why God calls atheists “fools.” Matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. There are no natural processes that can alter either matter or energy in this way.
Thermodynamics; There is absolutely no new matter or energy coinciding with existence, and there is no matter or energy leaving existence. Those who state the universe came to be violate the first law of thermodynamics, which was also created by a very active community of Science who are now supposedly ignoring it? In summary, this law plainly demonstrates that the universe, and all matter and energy within it, must have had a divine origin a specific moment in which it was created by someone who was all-powerful.
If you didn't know, prayer has also been proven scientifically. The proof is ample. A study of 90,000+ people in a rural community had 50% less deaths from heart disease then those who do not attend the Church. 53% also had fewer suicides. Many doctors believe that if they prayed with their patients before and after surgery or before administering a course of powerful drugs, this treatment might assist in the patient's recovery. There is also more proof which I will post when I get back home, leaving to school now. Praying for you!!
Freedom said:I truly believe he does as well.
May not seem like the best personal assurance, but I've had two religious Gamertags and got them in two significant months. There has been so much more thrown my way also.
December (self explanatory) - Catholic
February (birth month) - Salvation
Michael said:That is amazing man, we all have our personal experiences that assure us that he is very much alive.
Alt said:I hate to capitalize on that post and your response, because it seems so innocent, but I have to. This is a perfect, genuine example of the placebo that has over time been formed within the reputation and "abilities" of god. Surely, god wouldnt "assist" in getting him 2 religious gamertags, yet allow innocent people to starve, suffer and die everyday. I mean, you guys make some pretty radical claims. You should have more respect for your beliefs than that, because at this point its simply nonsense either way you dice it up. There is no way that you can possibly justify to me that god "gave him a sign" by setting him up for those gamertags. Not through logic.
And you Michael, you either are as clueless as him, or you gave him false positive reinforcement, knowing god probably had nothing to do with it, and you are just in the wrong. This is a disgusting cycle. You think this lone example is irrelevant, its not.
Please dont be offended, im being honest without trying to insult you guys. Im not criticizing you as people, just this particular belief. So I hope you understand that.
Freedom said:The fact YOU need to accept, really is, there is no way you could debunk this.
Coincidences just don't add up in line like that.. no way. My point of view rests and I'm not clueless.
Alt said:Have you ever heard of a probability formula? Factoring diversity and unlimited possibility, dont sit here and tell me that coincidences "dont add up like that." They're measurable. You're talking nonsense as if it were fact. Look at the similarities between Lee Harvy Oswald and John Wilkes Booth. There are multiple coincidences in just that one comparison, and that is the direct result of the formula I just described.
Are you implying that coincidences dont exist? If they do, how do you differentiate them from non-coincidences? Are non-coincidences always the work of god?
Put a bit more effort into justifying your views, I just cant respect the heresay you've given me thus far.
Phenom said:I believe in God in my own way and my views shall never change. I believe he does exist but is not a person more of a force something bigger than anything ever he did not only create Earth he created the Universe and everything inside it. You can always relate back to science how the earth was created and where planets came from but where did Space actually come from it hasn't just been here for millions and millions of years, there has got to be some point where it was created and that's where I believe it all started everything has a mean behind it. It didn't just poof out of thin air.
My view anyway.
Freedom said:I don't want to put any more effort into them. The debate should not even be sprung up.
Alt said:Applying your same logic, how do liken that our creator came to be?
Im perfectly okay with the concept of a creator. A god, no. Religion, definitely not.
Thats convenient. You made the thread, it is your responsibility to tend to it. Im dissapointed.
Freedom said:What? Michael made it. Honestly I haven't argued with an atheist since what I've seen in the world, and before then never even bothered much.
I believe all the other talk is simply deceptive.
@Phenom even though you scammed me Catholic. You're going to have to work this out with Him.
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