Why blame religion for (certain) wars?

[Amp]

Religion is the motive for certain people. They think they are doing what they're doing in the name of 'god' and it is what is right, whether it is or isn't.
I don't think you should necessarily blame religion, but blame the people. But then again it's what they believe in that's making them do what they do. It goes both ways.

 

[Envy]

That's actually not true. During the Holocaust, the soldiers were belt buckles that said "God is on our side." They used religion to justify the mass genocide of an entire religious group. Also, 9/11 was perpetrated by Islamic extremists, who believe that they were doing the work of God.

So to say that religion wasn't a cause of either of these events is dishonest. Neither even would have happened without supernatural justification.

@leader
Religon still isn't a cause of those events... You say that they used it as justification... Justification is far away from being similar to a cause in this case. Justification is what you tell yourself ato make yourself feel less guilty. The cause is from thr very beginning of it all. So lets go to the beginning. Find me one source of evidence that shows that Hitler's reasoning/Osama's reasoning was because of religion. Okay, so once you find out there is no evidence there, you say that those were just the leaders/masterminds behind it all. The soldiers who carried it out are the only people who matter. Okay soldiers, who were merely just pawns, did what they did because they were 'told' that god was on there side. Using god as persuasion? It's right out of the book... Neither event would have happened without supernatural justification? Bullshit. Hitler gained the majority of his army using Darwin's theories of evolution. That the German race was superior, and other races must be eliminated for the human species to thrive. 9/11? I'm sure the foot soldier's justifications were not completely just in God. It's more than likely they would have done it for pride for there homeland as well. Having god on their side waiting to congratulate them is a good thing to have as well.

 

[Nevermind]

@leader
Religon still isn't a cause of those events... You say that they used it as justification... Justification is far away from being similar to a cause in this case. Justification is what you tell yourself ato make yourself feel less guilty. The cause is from thr very beginning of it all. So lets go to the beginning. Find me one source of evidence that shows that Hitler's reasoning/Osama's reasoning was because of religion. Okay, so once you find out there is no evidence there, you say that those were just the leaders/masterminds behind it all. The soldiers who carried it out are the only people who matter. Okay soldiers, who were merely just pawns, did what they did because they were 'told' that god was on there side. Using god as persuasion? It's right out of the book...

Osama Bin Laden was an Islamic extremist. How can you possibly deny that religion wasn't a factor in the attacks? It was the main reason they attack, in hopes that they would be rewarded in the afterlife.

As for Hitler...

The first edition of Mein Kampf suggests that Hitler may once have believed in a young earth:

"this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men" (p. 65; the second edition substitutes "millions" for "thousands," and chapter 11 refers to "hundreds of thousands of years" of life in another context.)

Other passages further support his creationist leanings:

The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise. (Hitler 1943, 383)
and

What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, . . . so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. (Hitler 1943, 214)

Quotes from Hitler invoking Christianity as a basis for his actions could be multiplied ad nauseam. For example:
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord (Hitler 1943, 65).

"[T]he task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission (Hitler 1943, 398).
A campaign against the "godless movement" and an appeal for Catholic support were launched Wednesday by Chancellor Adolf Hitler's forces (Associated Press 1933).

 

[Envy]

@leader
Updated my previous post above.
You clearly don't know anything about 9/11 if you think religion was the main reason. Yes, osama was an islamic extremist... Congrats... So is the rest of Al Qaeda...

 

[Nevermind]

@leader
Updated my previous post above.
You clearly don't know anything about 9/11 if you think religion was the main reason. Yes, osama was an islamic extremist... Congrats... So is the rest of Al Qaeda...

Do you think they would have attacked if they weren't extremists? No, they wouldn't have. There would have been no reason. There is no reason for an atheist or agnostic to participate in suicide bombing, because they wouldn't have a reason to. The fact that they were Islamic extremists is the main reason as to why they would have even considered a suicide attack.

Commands of violence are riddled throughout the Qu'ran. Here are just a few examples.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

These are only a few quotes. I could provide more if you would like.

As for Hitler:

"Hitler based his ideas not on Darwinism but on a "divine right" philosophy:
Thus, it [the folkish philosophy] by no means believes in an equality of races, but along with their difference it recognizes their higher or lesser value and feels itself obligated, through this knowledge, to promote the victory of the better and stronger, and demand the subordination of the inferior and weaker in accordance with the eternal will that dominates this universe. (Hitler 1943, 383)"

The Nazi Party in general rejected Darwinism and supported Christianity. In 1935, Die Bücherei, the official Nazi journal for lending libraries, published a list of guidelines of works to reject, including:
Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel). (Die Bücherei 1935, 279)
On the other hand, an undated "Blacklist for Public Libraries and Commercial Lending Libraries" includes the following on a list of literature which "absolutely must be removed":
c) All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk. (Blacklist n.d.)
Genocide and racism existed long before Darwin. Obviously, they did not need any contribution from Darwinism. In many instances, such as the Crusades and the Spanish conquest of Central America, religion was explicitly invoked to justify them.

Evolution does not promote social Darwinism or racism or eugenics."

 

[Envy]

@leader
Stop quoting hella long stuff. These quotes don't prove anything. You think that an athiest or agnostic wouldn't blow themselves up for any reason whatsoever? What if they're loved ones were gonna die if they didn't? Are you saying that they're aren't people who would die for their loved ones. You don't think they're nationalists who wouldn't die for their country? WWII Japan. The fricking armies of the world?...

Not for the real point. Religion is still not a cause. Here is the definition in case you're confused: the reason or motive for some human action. Err was the motive to attack the wtc for religion? If so, i don't see why they don't kill every nonmuslim in the entire world... Oh wait their god told them, " go bomb the wtc through this extraordinary plan because I said so and no other reason". Since they did not do what I just said. Religion is a justifaction not a cause. Al Qaeda was angry at the united states, so they bombed us, and used god's name to defend their actions.

Now for your Hitler stuff. I don't care that the fucking crusades did it because of religion... This entire thing is about hitler. And i didn't say he worshiped darwinism... i said he used his ideas... I also don't care that darwinism isn't needed for evolution. I already know this as I'm not a fucking Nazi.

I'm glad you can quote really long things from books though.

 

[Nevermind]

@leader
Stop quoting hella long stuff. These quotes don't prove anything. You think that an athiest or agnostic wouldn't blow themselves up for any reason whatsoever? What if they're loved ones were gonna die if they didn't? Are you saying that they're aren't people who would die for their loved ones. You don't think they're nationalists who wouldn't die for their country? WWII Japan. The fricking armies of the world?...

Not for the real point. Religion is still not a cause. Here is the definition in case you're confused: the reason or motive for some human action. Err was the motive to attack the wtc for religion? If so, i don't see why they don't kill every nonmuslim in the entire world... Oh wait their god told them, " go bomb the wtc through this extraordinary plan because I said so and no other reason". Since they did not do what I just said. Religion is a justifaction not a cause. Al Qaeda was angry at the united states, so they bombed us, and used god's name to defend their actions.

Now for your Hitler stuff. I don't care that the fucking crusades did it because of religion... This entire thing is about hitler. And i didn't say he worshiped darwinism... i said he used his ideas... I also don't care that darwinism isn't needed for evolution. I already know this as I'm not a fucking Nazi.

I'm glad you can quote really long things from books though.

Hitler, Stalin, Osama and Hirohito all used the philosophy of "divine authority" to justify mass murder and violence. You can't ignore those quotes because they are evidence that support that very point.

 

[Burt]

Blaming a country at war for religious reasons is stupid. WW1=ideological differences. WW2=jealousy (It wasn't Hitler's Christianity VS. Judaism, it was because the Jews were quickly taking over much of Germany's economic growth while millions of German citizens lived destitute or just above that line. He did fuel the war with his ideals after the fact, but it didn't start because of that. Vietnam=Same deal, fueled the soldiers. Medieval wars, sure, I'll give you that. But no pre-modern-modern war can be solely blamed for starting over religious differences. I will agree that religion is often used too much to fan the flames, but to imply that it starts wars is ridiculous.