God is real

Prepare said:

Everyone has their own opinions/beliefs. If you're an atheist, congrats. Same goes if you believe in any religion. There's no way to truly know whether there is a God or not. However, I was born into a Catholic family. I believe in him, and I have faith in him.

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You were born into a Catholic family, so you're Christian.

And if you were born into a Islamic fundamentalist family, you would be deeply religious and believe in Allah.

And if you were born in ancient Greece, you would believe in mythological Greek gods.

And if you were born into a Jewish family, you would believe in Yahweh.

And if you were born in Buddhist family, you would be Buddhist.

And if you were born into a family of one of our hominid ancestors, such as the Australopithecus, you wouldn't believe in a god.

Is the pattern not blatant enough? It's simply a matter of the time period and location you were born into. It's not a matter of evidence or faith.

Okay, how about this what happens when you die? Purgatory?

Michael said:

Okay, how about this what happens when you die? Purgatory?

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No not purgatory, just decay and worms.

Preach it, brotha man! I view faith and religion as a way of coping. People of faith on average live much longer and I truly believe in the afterlife. Even after hundreds of years of hardcore science, they still haven't been able to disprove religion, at all. You can provide any links you want, but they haven't. I don't knock or disregard any other forms of religion or even science, so don't point your fingers at me and my faith. Science doesn't give you the right to or teach you to judge. Even Einstein had the utmost respect for people of faith.

I'm glad you posted this, atheists are stupid.

Create said:

I'm glad you posted this, atheists are stupid.

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This is an absolute garbage post. Please come back with an argument other than "Atheists are stupid."


On-topic:

As Cann!bal said, would you mind laying out your beliefs? It will help me better understand which argument you're going to use and the fallacies involved.

Create said:

I'm glad you posted this, atheists are stupid.

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Firstly, you're a discriminating bigot.

93% of elite scientists are either atheist or agnostic, and you can't deny, that's a pretty overwhelming majority. And numerous polls and surveys have shown atheists are typically more intelligent than theists. So, I'll have disagree with you, atheists typically aren't stupid.

Plus, I refuted every single point he made here, with sound logic and you seemingly ignored it.

Jesus died on the cross for us 2000 years ago, this was witnessed by over 500 people, he also
rose from the dead also witnessed by over 500 people. He did this to save mankind.

If Jesus didn't exist or had not come, all of mankind--without exception--would be doomed to go to Hell for eternity. The Bible teaches that we are all sinners and have fallen from God's glory. None of us merit spending eternity in Heaven. We certainly cannot get their by our own merit. Only by the blood of Christ can mankind go to Heaven. This means that he must accept what God did in sending His Son to the earth and allowing Him to be crucified on a a cross to die in our place--for our sins.

Because Christ came, each person who calls upon Him to become their savior can be saved. If He had not come, then He would not have died for our sins, and we could not be saved.

Ask yourself how you'd get to Heaven if Jesus had not make the way for you. There is only one ticket into Heaven and it cannot be bought. It is a free ticket. It is Jesus. He is the only way. There is no other way, not other name by which a person can get into Heaven, no other door or entry that will open into Heaven for mankind--except Jesus.

Heaven is a perfect place. If imperfect people go there, it will not be perfect. The problem is that all of mankind is imperfect. We are each imperfect. None of us can become perfect on our own. It is impossible. This is why God sent His Son Jesus to die for our imperfections (our sins) and to make a way for us to go to Heaven through Him, through Jesus. When a person repents of their sin and asks Jesus to come into their heart to be their Savior, they are sealed (invisibly stamped) with the Spirit of God. That seal is what allows them into Heaven. You can read about this in the book of Ephesians in the New Testament Bible.

To be sure you are going to Heaven, you can pray a prayer something like this: "Dear Jesus, I know I'm not perfect and that I've done bad things at times.. I know I don't deserve to go to Heaven, but I know you've made a way for me to go by dying for my sins. Please come into my heart and be my Savior and Lord. Amen!"

If you pray a prayer like this meaning it as best you can, Christ will seal you with His Spirit and begin preparing you for your future heavenly home. Take time to get to know Him more by praying and reading the Bible and fellowshipping with other Christians. This will help you grow spiritually.

Is it too hard to just pray a simple prayer that will not even take 30 seconds of your time, to ask Jesus Christ, our lord & saviour to reveal himself?! All I am trying to do is save you from eternal damnation.

I believe in god and I believe in Jesus just don't believe that Jesus is the son of god beeline he was a prophet of The Lord. Not here to debate my opinion just sharing

Thanks for ignoring every single point I made and question I made, quite healthy for a good debate.

Michaelll said:

Jesus died on the cross for us 2000 years ago, this was witnessed by over 500 people, he also rose from the dead also witnessed by over 500 people. He did this to save mankind.

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What makes you so confident that the events depicted in the new testament regarding Jesus, or the bible in general weren't simply false?

If Jesus didn't exist or had not come, all of mankind--without exception--would be doomed to go to Hell for eternity. The Bible teaches that we are all sinners and have fallen from God's glory. None of us merit spending eternity in Heaven. We certainly cannot get their by our own merit. Only by the blood of Christ can mankind go to Heaven. This means that he must accept what God did in sending His Son to the earth and allowing Him to be crucified on a a cross to die in our place--for our sins.

Because Christ came, each person who calls upon Him to become their savior can be saved. If He had not come, then He would not have died for our sins, and we could not be saved.

Ask yourself how you'd get to Heaven if Jesus had not make the way for you. There is only one ticket into Heaven and it cannot be bought. It is a free ticket. It is Jesus. He is the only way. There is no other way, not other name by which a person can get into Heaven, no other door or entry that will open into Heaven for mankind--except Jesus.

Heaven is a perfect place. If imperfect people go there, it will not be perfect. The problem is that all of mankind is imperfect. We are each imperfect. None of us can become perfect on our own. It is impossible. This is why God sent His Son Jesus to die for our imperfections (our sins) and to make a way for us to go to Heaven through Him, through Jesus. When a person repents of their sin and asks Jesus to come into their heart to be their Savior, they are sealed (invisibly stamped) with the Spirit of God. That seal is what allows them into Heaven. You can read about this in the book of Ephesians in the New Testament Bible.

To be sure you are going to Heaven, you can pray a prayer something like this: "Dear Jesus, I know I'm not perfect and that I've done bad things at times.. I know I don't deserve to go to Heaven, but I know you've made a way for me to go by dying for my sins. Please come into my heart and be my Savior and Lord. Amen!"

If you pray a prayer like this meaning it as best you can, Christ will seal you with His Spirit and begin preparing you for your future heavenly home. Take time to get to know Him more by praying and reading the Bible and fellowshipping with other Christians. This will help you grow spiritually.

Is it too hard to just pray a simple prayer that will not even take 30 seconds of your time, to ask Jesus Christ, our lord & saviour to reveal himself?! All I am trying to do is save you from eternal damnation.

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These claims are entirely based off arguments from ignorance, hence, logically fallacious.

This can hardly be even considered a debate, you're ignoring all my points and simply trying to persuade others to Christianity with logical fallacies.

I learn more usefulness in this thread, than a whole year in school.

I believe in god because of something that has happened to me in the past.

Hype Beast said:

I learn more usefulness in this thread, than a whole year in school.

I believe in god because of something that has happened to me in the past.

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A personal experience does not validate one's beliefs in certain god. Personal claims derive from every belief system and religion, with contradictory claims, which god is true is indistinguishable, thus, making personal experiences invalid evidence for you and for everyone.

Personal eye-witness claims regarding theism are unreliable and are devoid of the potential possibility of there being a rational explanation. In experiment, one can see that the after-the-fact evidence and reconstruction of a personal claim is far more reliable than seeing something firsthand. For example; a murder scene. At first not much can be observed, however, with reconstruction of the murder, much more can be seen. This reconstruction would be far more accurate than the personal description of an eye-witness who saw it firsthand.

You can see this firsthand here:

http://youtu.be/IGQmdoK_ZfY

A personal experience in favor of theism would have a rational explanation, in the reconstruction of the event.

Cann!bal said:

Thanks for ignoring every single point I made and question I made, quite healthy for a good debate.

Spoiler

What makes you so confident that the events depicted in the new testament regarding Jesus, or the bible in general weren't simply false?


These claims are entirely based off arguments from ignorance, hence, logically fallacious.

This can hardly be even considered a debate, you're ignoring all my points and simply trying to persuade others to Christianity with logical fallacies.

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That's kind of narrow-minded logic there, my man. A book and it's teachings have lasted and held their strength for over 2,000 years. Science can't answer all of our questions, no matter how much we want it to. Literally ever scientific theory about creation and the answer to the question, "why are we here?" are just that, theories. You can NOT say otherwise. That's the beautiful balance of our existence. Nobody knows anything. Religious people seek to prove and science people seek to disprove on this subject. Until the day you die, you will never know the true answer to this.

Richard Dawkins (the king of the atheists, for those of you who don't know of him) himself said that scientists scare him just as much, if not more than religious people. Scientists will make the weapons that destroy our world and religious zealots will be the ones pushing the buttons. Think about that. Religious people have killed many in the name of God, but even the head atheist predicted that scientists will be the one to burn the world.

I'm not knocking your viewpoints, simply giving clarification. There are no winners in this argument, in this scenario. You will continue refuting God and I will continue believing. That's how this ends. You're no better than I, and I no better than you. We're human-beings, spinning on the same sphere, trying to figure out what the fuck to do next.

And don't start pulling out statistics. A simple Wiki search will show you that 85% of the world believes in a higher power and/or embraces some sort of spirituality. And the biggest portion of the 14% of seculars, agnostics and atheists are from Asia, including China and Japan. And considering the population of China alone, I think it's safe to say that that number drops to less than 5-6% for all non-Asian countries. These numbers can easily be found with some simple searching, so don't try refuting it.

Point is, 86% of the world believes. Almost 95% of non-Asian nations believe. This has been the case for thousands of years and will be the case for the rest of time, probably. Atheists aren't a new group in this dance. They've been around as long as there were people believing.

Why judge someone based on their faith? It's a FACT that people of faith and spirituality live significantly longer lives than people without. True or not true, how is believing in a higher power and living a longer and more peaceful life, in any way, shape or form a bad thing? I truly believe in the afterlife, as I said, and I have a great inner peace that I never had when I thought agnostically (as a teen).

As I told someone on HF, I won't judge you or anyone else for not believing, so respect me and show me the same kindness.

kinco85 said:

That's kind of narrow-minded logic there, my man. A book and it's teachings have lasted and held their strength for over 2,000 years. Science can't answer all of our questions, no matter how much we want it to. Literally ever scientific theory about creation and the answer to the question, "why are we here?" are just that, theories. You can NOT say otherwise. That's the beautiful balance of our existence. Nobody knows anything. Religious people seek to prove and science people seek to disprove on this subject. Until the day you die, you will never know the true answer to this.

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"Held its strength?" It was forced upon the people, atheists and protestants who didn't convert were labeled heretics by the church and slaughtered.

Firstly, there are no scientific theories on creation. Secondly, you're making an equivocation fallacy. A scientific theory and a simple theory's definitions differ greatly.

I was just explaining both of these things yesterday:

Cann!bal said:

Evolution isn't a creation theory, it's the process which we evolved, the explanation of how we evolved.

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Cann!bal said:

I think your thought process is being misconstrued by the term theory. A scientific theory differs greatly from a simple theory.

A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.

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Unlike a simple theory, where the contrary aspects can be found, such as it can be invalid, untested, and not supported by invalid logic.

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"Religious people seek to prove and science people seek to disprove on this subject."

That's false. Must I elaborate?

Richard Dawkins (the king of the atheists, for those of you who don't know of him) himself said that scientists scare him just as much, if not more than religious people. Scientists will make the weapons that destroy our world and religious zealots will be the ones pushing the buttons. Think about that. Religious people have killed many in the name of God, but even the head atheist predicted that scientists will be the one to burn the world.

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LOL, Richard Dawkins is not the king of atheists, don't be so silly.

And he made a valid point. However, I don't see the relevancy to the debate. And scientists won't burn the world, the ones who are in control of the invention will, the scientists are merely the creators.

I'm not knocking your viewpoints, simply giving clarification. There are no winners in this argument, in this scenario. You will continue refuting God and I will continue believing. That's how this ends. You're no better than I, and I no better than you. We're human-beings, spinning on the same sphere, trying to figure out what the fuck to do next.

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I'm very much aware no conclusion can be made, for god is a unfalsifiable concept. However, logic is favoring the likeliness of there being no god chiefly.

Where did I even claim I was better than everyone?

And don't start pulling out statistics. A simple Wiki search will show you that 85% of the world believes in a higher power and/or embraces some sort of spirituality. And the biggest portion of the 14% of seculars, agnostics and atheists are from Asia, including China and Japan. And considering the population of China alone, I think it's safe to say that that number drops to less than 5-6% for all non-Asian countries. These numbers can easily be found with some simple searching, so don't try refuting it.

Point is, 86% of the world believes. Almost 95% of non-Asian nations believe. This has been the case for thousands of years and will be the case for the rest of time, probably. Atheists aren't a new group in this dance. They've been around as long as there were people believing.

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You're making an appeal to the majority fallacy, also known as an ad populum argument, where one's argument is asserted to be true because the majority of people believe it to be true. The majority does not validate your argument for truth exists independently.

Why judge someone based on their faith? It's a FACT that people of faith and spirituality live significantly longer lives than people without. True or not true, how is believing in a higher power and living a longer and more peaceful life, in any way, shape or form a bad thing? I truly believe in the afterlife, as I said, and I have a great inner peace that I never had when I thought agnostically (as a teen).

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I rather live in truth than in lie. Even if the statistic is true, it does not mean I won't live longer. It is a bad thing for it wastes the only life you are given and burdens the overall advancement of the human race. I live very peaceful life as well, religion is not a necessary aspect for a long life and peace.

As I told someone on HF, I won't judge you or anyone else for not believing, so respect me and show me the same kindness.

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Religion deserves to ridiculed for it's malarkey and ridiculousness. It is the heaviest burden of human advancement. I won't ridicule you, however, as for your religion, I will.

Cann!bal said:

"Held its strength?" It was forced upon the people, atheists and protestants who didn't convert were labeled heretics by the church and slaughtered.

Firstly, there are no scientific theories on creation. Secondly, you're making an equivocation fallacy. A scientific theory and a simple theory's definitions differ greatly.

I was just explaining both of these things yesterday:


"Religious people seek to prove and science people seek to disprove on this subject."

That's false. Must I elaborate?


LOL, Richard Dawkins is not the king of atheists, don't be so silly.

And he made a valid point. However, I don't see the relevancy to the debate. And scientists won't burn the world, the ones who are in control of the invention will, the scientists are merely the creators.


I'm very much aware no conclusion can be made, for god is a unfalsifiable concept. However, logic is favoring the likeliness of there being no god chiefly.

Where did I even claim I was better than everyone?


You're making an appeal to the majority fallacy, also known as an ad populum argument, where one's argument is asserted to be true because the majority of people believe it to be true. The majority does not validate your argument for truth exists independently.


I rather live in truth than in lie. Even if the statistic is true, it does not mean I won't live longer. It is a bad thing for it wastes the only life you are given and burdens the overall advancement of the human race. I live very peaceful life as well, religion is not a necessary aspect for a long life and peace.


Religion deserves to ridiculed for it's malarkey and ridiculousness. It is the heaviest burden of human advancement. I won't ridicule you, however, as for your religion, I will.

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I'm just going to retort on one point since it's after 4AM and I'm tired AF. I should've been more clear. When I said creation, I meant the 'theory' of evolution. Even after all these years, post-Darwin, it's still referred to as theory and is taught as such. And Christianity is 'not' forced on everyone. I, for one, while raised in a family of believers, found my own spirituality and accepted God in to my life through my own life lessons. I'm well versed and have a well above average intellect, and I chose to believe. NOTHING was forced on me.

Scientists will forever be seeking to prove the theory of evolution and disprove Christianity and religious people will forever be seeking to prove the existence of God and disprove sacrilegious scientific claims. There is no winning this debate from either side. I'm guessing you're still young. This debate is unwinnable. You're a hypocrite to lay ridicule at my feet for my beliefs, as I'm not ridiculing you for yours. Personality-wise or belief-wise. I'm not preaching to you, I'm just saying, let it go. You can not and will not win this debate, nor will I. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

On a personal note: My religion has taught me structure and organization and has given me great physical and mental stability. Much more so than when I was a young punk, addicted to drugs and not caring about anything but my own selfish needs. I also attained a sense of inner peace, that is 'not' attainable when you live your life in uncertainty. Any scenario you can imaging where religion may seem like a crutch to you, has given me the utmost comfort. I have something to look forward to growing old. I have the comfort of knowing that when my time comes and my life on this world ceases, I will be with my creator. It's a choice, not an opinion. You either feel and know these things, or you choose not to.

And for argument's sake this is it. One shot, we're gone forever. The core principles and teachings of the bible should at least be adhered to, even if the belief is non-existent. Love everyone. Treat everyone with equality and compassion. Don't steal. Don't lie. Don't kill. Be respectful and mindful of everyone, especially your elders. If any of that is wrong by your standards, you've got it all backwards. I'm not saying you personally do, but those core teachings reach far beyond the bible itself.

I'm withdrawing from this debate, because, as I said, it can not be won. If you would like to discuss a non-science and non-religious topic some time, I'd be more than happy to participate.

kinco85 said:

I'm just going to retort on one point since it's after 4AM and I'm tired AF. I should've been more clear. When I said creation, I meant the 'theory' of evolution. Even after all these years, post-Darwin, it's still referred to as theory and is taught as such. And Christianity is 'not' forced on everyone. I, for one, while raised in a family of believers, found my own spirituality and accepted God in to my life through my own life lessons. I'm well versed and have a well above average intellect, and I chose to believe. NOTHING was forced on me.

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I already stated the theory of evolution is not a creation theory. You're continuing to make the equivocation fallacy. As previously aforementioned; a scientific theory differs greatly from a normal theory. It is no longer a taught as a theory, it is taught as a fact my school.

It's quite blatant that it is not forced on everyone.

You deny evolution, I find it hard to imagine you to be above average intellect. Your background mentally biased your decision no matter what you claim.

Scientists will forever be seeking to prove the theory of evolution and disprove Christianity and religious people will forever be seeking to prove the existence of God and disprove sacrilegious scientific claims. There is no winning this debate from either side. I'm guessing you're still young. This debate is unwinnable. You're a hypocrite to lay ridicule at my feet for my beliefs, as I'm not ridiculing you for yours. Personality-wise or belief-wise. I'm not preaching to you, I'm just saying, let it go. You can not and will not win this debate, nor will I. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

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Evolution is a fact, it has been proven. It is the foundation for biology and accepted as fact by hundreds of renown scientific foundations. As I said yesterday, "Denying evolution is the essential equivalent of denying the holocaust."

Scientists main goal is not to antagonize religious beliefs. Scientists merely believe what they examine, which happens to contradict religious beliefs.

Did you ignore everything I said? I stated I'm aware that this debate is unwinnable, however, logic chiefly favors the likeliness of there being no god.

You obviously don't know the definition of hypocrite.

On a personal note: My religion has taught me structure and organization and has given me great physical and mental stability. Much more so than when I was a young punk, addicted to drugs and not caring about anything but my own selfish needs. I also attained a sense of inner peace, that is 'not' attainable when you live your life in uncertainty. Any scenario you can imaging where religion may seem like a crutch to you, has given me the utmost comfort. I have something to look forward to growing old. I have the comfort of knowing that when my time comes and my life on this world ceases, I will be with my creator. It's a choice, not an opinion. You either feel and know these things, or you choose not to.

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Well, I attained it, so that's obviously false. Plus, your logic makes no sense. You live in uncertainty too. You have no idea whether god is real or not.

You're making the argument from ignorance fallacy, multiple times. You do not know that you will be with your creator, you do not know if there's a god, you do not know if it's a choice or not.

And for argument's sake this is it. One shot, we're gone forever. The core principles and teachings of the bible should at least be adhered to, even if the belief is non-existent. Love everyone. Treat everyone with equality and compassion. Don't steal. Don't lie. Don't kill. Be respectful and mindful of everyone, especially your elders. If any of that is wrong by your standards, you've got it all backwards. I'm not saying you personally do, but those core teachings reach far beyond the bible itself.

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You have no idea how much intolerance, misogyny, injustice, violence, death can be found inside that single book. It's absolutely barbaric. You cannot ignore all the immoral teachings and cherry-pick the good moral teachings in the bible.

I'm withdrawing from this debate, because, as I said, it can not be won. If you would like to discuss a non-science and non-religious topic some time, I'd be more than happy to participate.

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God is not a scientific topic.

Cann!bal said:

I already stated the theory of evolution is not a creation theory. You're continuing to make the equivocation fallacy. As previously aforementioned; a scientific theory differs greatly from a normal theory. It is no longer a taught as a theory, it is taught as a fact my school.

It's quite blatant that it is not forced on everyone.

You deny evolution, I find it hard to imagine you to be above average intellect. Your background mentally biased your decision no matter what you claim.


Evolution is a fact, it has been proven. It is the foundation for biology and accepted as fact by hundreds of renown scientific foundations. As I said yesterday, "Denying evolution is the essential equivalent of denying the holocaust."

Scientists main goal is not to antagonize religious beliefs. Scientists merely believe what they examine, which happens to contradict religious beliefs.

Did you ignore everything I said? I stated I'm aware that this debate is unwinnable, however, logic chiefly favors the likeliness of there being no god.

You obviously don't know the definition of hypocrite.


Well, I attained it, so that's obviously false. Plus, your logic makes no sense. You live in uncertainty too. You have no idea whether god is real or not.

You're making the argument from ignorance fallacy, multiple times. You do not know that you will be with your creator, you do not know if there's a god, you do not know if it's a choice or not.


You have no idea how much intolerance, misogyny, injustice, violence, death can be found inside that single book. It's absolutely barbaric. You cannot ignore all the immoral teachings and cherry-pick the good moral teachings in the bible.


God is not a scientific topic.

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You're just an angry little feller, ain'tcha?

And I'm not getting back into this. You contradicted yourself by calling evolutionary teaching a "fact". Good night . And just for the record, I don't disregard the THEORY of evolution. I can neither prove nor disprove it, because I wasn't there when shit started. I accept it as theory, as it is intended to be. It IS still referred to as the theory of evolution by any and all means, so don't say otherwise. Keep believing what you want and I'll keep knowing what I do. We'll find out when we're dead who wins.

kinco85 said:

You're just an angry little feller, ain'tcha?

And I'm not getting back into this. You contradicted yourself by calling evolutionary teaching a "fact". Good night . And just for the record, I don't disregard the THEORY of evolution. I can neither prove nor disprove it, because I wasn't there when shit started. I accept it as theory, as it is intended to be. It IS still referred to as the theory of evolution by any and all means, so don't say otherwise. Keep believing what you want and I'll keep knowing what I do. We'll find out when we're dead who wins.

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Angry? No. Annoyed? Somewhat. I've pointed this out twice, yet, you continue to ignore me. You're still making the equivocation fallacy, so no, I did not contradict myself at all. Please inquire on the definitions of theory and scientific theory, your logic is very misconstrued because so. Evolution isn't an unfalsifiable concept, unlike god, evolution can and has been proven. Threatening me with hell isn't going to change my mind on the matter of a deity's existence. You're also continuing to make the argument from ignorance fallacy. Matter of fact, I rather be eternally damned than worship the Christian god, because he's a sick psychotic dictator.

I would love to revive this thread back up as it has received such a great debate from the members. I'd like to hear others' opinions beside me & Cann!bal, I want to know what you all think about God, afterlife, etc. What do you believe happens when you die?

Fuck no I don't believe in that crap. Just think to your self, how does it make sense.